Inaugural meeting of
The Lamma Island Branch of
The Hong Kong Philosophy Café (HKPC)

SCMP article about the HKPC

7:00 P.M.
The Bookworm Café
G/F, 79, Yung Shue Wan Main Street

The Lamma Philosophy Café will meet on the first Sunday evening (7:00 P.M.) of every month
(a different topic will be explored every time)

For more information, contact Lammacafe@gmail.com

The worldwide philosophy cafe movement originated in Paris in 1992. The French philosopher, Marc Sautet, sought to reclaim philosophy from the 'Ivory Tower' of academia and return it to the lived lives of genuine communities for discussion and dialogue around issues that meaningfully impacted our lives.

The topic of the first meeting is "Centering Prayer" - a form of Christian meditation.

Presenter, Cynthia Bourgeault, is an Episcopal priest, writer, and internationally known retreat leader who travels globally to teach and spread the recovery of the Christian contemplative path. Cynthia is the author of six books including, most recently, The Meaning of Mary Magdalene

_________________
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
----- Margaret Mead

Link doesn't work unless you're a subscriber.

opps! Thanks Alan. Here's the article then:

We think, therefore we drink ... no, we drink, therefore we think
They are, perhaps, Hong Kong's most unlikely bunch of bar-room brawlers. David Watkins trades highbrow blows
May 03, 2004

Arguing is good for you. No, it isn't. Yes, it is - vocalised confrontation in a relationship is a positive thing, demonstrating that both parties feel comfortable enough to reveal their true selves to each other. Heightened emotions at the time might suggest otherwise, and chances are you're going to hear a few things you'd rather not. However, assuming that the storm successfully clears the air, you can continue onwards on an elevated plateau of understanding.

Of course, there's nothing quite like winning an argument, either. Handing out intellectual beat-downs is perhaps one of the most satisfying forms of combat. It's also a two-way street, and so the members of the Hong Kong Philosophy Cafe meet once a month to hone their skills.

Not that there's any bad feeling here, with everyone arming themselves with a few beers and some good-natured banter at the start of each two-hour sessions. 'Not everyone is used to the process of formulating and defending a point of view,' says Roy Butler, a long-time member of the Hong Kong Philosophy Cafe Fringe Club branch, who is limbering up his grey matter along with 17 other like-minded individuals.

'These evenings always include a certain amount of attack and defence, and some people get upset. Hopefully, most newcomers learn by the end that anyone ought to be capable of engaging in a serious disagreement without getting upset.'

Assuming a disagreement is to be had at all, of course. 'Our meeting two months ago was unusual in that it was impossible to generate any form of discussion, because everyone agreed,' he says. 'I was the speaker and my topic was 'The Absurdities of Christianity'. So, you might conclude that most of the people who are interested in philosophy are perhaps not coherent to any religion, which is useful. A sceptical approach is a necessary part of the equipment.'

In its five years, 424 members have signed up to the cafe. Up to 40 regulars cram themselves around a table upstairs in the Fringe Club every month. A Kowloon branch meets at the Cultural Centre, and there's a Cantonese branch, as well as a newly arranged 'Happy Hour' branch that rarely strays out of the pub.

One person supplies a short introduction before the topic (tonight's is Nietzsche) is opened for general discussion. A moderator - although at more heated moments you could call him a referee - ensures everyone gets a chance to talk. 'Last month was the first time when people couldn't get in the room,' says Butler, eyeing me. 'That was on the ethics of journalism.'

This is apt. If it weren't for a spot of shoddy journalism, chances are the club wouldn't have started. The Philosophy Cafe phenomenon was born out of a journalistic mistake. In the summer of 1992 at the Cafe des Phares in Paris, Marc Sautet, a Nietzsche expert, was sitting with friends, discussing his plans to open a private philosophy consultancy. Sitting next to him was a journalist who, after catching snippets of conversation, went and announced on a radio programme that people were meeting every Sunday morning at the cafe to discuss philosophy.

So, it came as a surprise to Sautet when, the next week, 10 people turned up for a discussion. From that point on the 'Cafe Philo' was alive and kicking. Today, there are 130 cafes in France and a further 70 around the world, including Hong Kong's own branches, first opened five years ago by Dr Stephen Palmquist, associate professor at Hong Kong Baptist University's department of religion and philosophy. 'I was convinced ... this sort of organisation would make a meaningful contribution to Hong Kong's successful democratisation,' he says.

Judging by last week's news, it hasn't quite achieved that. 'One of the benefits of philosophy is not that it leads you to the answers, but that it shows you what limits there are in applying reason in pursuit of those answers,' says Simon Patkin, a cafe regular and business-English tutor. 'What you're doing is looking at reality in a way that you can deal with it.'

You could call it mental aerobics, says Butler. 'I come along to get my intellectual muscles working. Others do it because they're genuinely searching for answers to some of life's most important questions.'

The Hong Kong Philosophy Cafe: www.hkbu.edu.hk/~ppp/HKPC

_________________
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
----- Margaret Mead

A philosophy café is NOT a religious meeting.
No system of belief or values will be privileged over any other…

Except for…

a belief in and a deep commitment to genuine dialogue, where the right to present one’s own point of view is protected (provided it is not denigrating the dignity of others or ridiculing different opinions) and where dissent is not only allowed, but embraced as the fuel that powers a deep exploration of ideas.
The Lamma Philosophy Café will provide a friendly place for the exploration of ideas, where we may question our own assumptions and the assumptions of the various circles of culture within which all of us struggle to find our own ‘right path’. It will not always be comfortable, but as we learn to embrace our differences and celebrate our commonalities, we will build a community of sharing where we will learn it’s safe to be ourselves – to be different. And all of this while potentially enjoying a favourite veggie snack and a cup of coffee or a glass of organic wine or beer.

The Hong Kong Philosophy Café was started by Professor Stephen Palmquist, of the Religion and Philosophy Department of Hong Kong Baptist University in 1992. They have been holding monthly meetings since September of 1999 and currently meet the 2nd Tuesday evening of every month at the Fringe Club in Central and there is a second group called ‘ Happy Friday’ that meets in a pub on HK Island. The HKPC’s stated goal is to promote free and open discussion of philosophical issues by arranging regular meetings in local venues open to the general public.
The first topic of the new Lamma branch of the HKPC happens to have a Christian theme, the presenter being an Episcopalian Priest from the United States. But I must stress that all are welcome to participate in the dialogue regardless of the nature of (or lack of) their spiritual/religious convictions. The point is to explore the ideas critically in a way that may crack them or ourselves open to receiving new insights.

No future topics have yet been established, but they will doubtless range from the more formally philosophical to questions around environmentalism and community life, to presentations of other religious/spiritual positions. So, whether you are atheist, agnostic, Buddhist, Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Wiccan, a devotee of one of the many Chinese deities, a Taoist, New Age, or any of the other time honoured or new religious movements of the world PLEASE FEEL WELCOME to join in our new community of dialogue!

_________________
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
----- Margaret Mead

Whhooaa,

Since when did Philosophy have anything to do with religion.

Religion= blind unquestioning faith in the face of zero evidence .

Philosophy = the study of general and fundamental problems concerning matters such as existence, knowledge, values, reason, mind, and language.[1][2] It is distinguished from other ways of addressing fundamental questions (such as mysticism, myth, or the arts) by its critical, generally systematic approach and its reliance on rational argument (thanks wikipedia)

Someone has confused matters here, no philosophy club would bother with this bunch of twot.

I smell a Christian and would be very surprised if they didn't hand out some nice little Jesus pamphlets and try and get you radical free thinkers into Church next weekend.

They'll be more philosophy in the Island Bar than this Bible bash.

yes, that bit kind of smacks you in the face at the end.

It's good to see you did your research Poilkoop. (I also find Wikipedia quite handy )

First of all, philosophy has historically had a great deal to do with religion. I suggest, for example, that you try reading some:

Immanuel Kant
Religion within the Limits of Reason Alone
or
Critique of Practical Reason
Philosophy of Religion itself has been a major area of inquiry from since the time of Aristotle.

Many of the great Continental Philosophers have been eminently interested in religious questions - see:
Friedrich Schleiermacher, Paul Ricœur, and countless others.

Secondly, your definition of religion is not supportable by a great deal of evidence. There is one species of religious person who's views might be described by your "blind unquestioning faith in the face of zero evidence" but there is a plethora of other religious positions that involve serious self critical examination and that would say "don't believe what I say - try it for yourself" Buddha was a good example of the latter.

Alfred North Whitehead, who wrote, with Bertrand Russell, Principia Mathematica, spent a great deal of his philosophical career trying to reconcile the existence of God with with modern scientific knowledge of the cosmos, developing a unifying metaphysic know an Process Thought. This was later developed into Process Theology by some progressive Christian Theologians to develop what is now a very reasonable harmony of the scientific world view with the religious.

I'm afraid that your assertion:

only points to your own grave ignorance of a matter about which you speak most boldy and also very disrespectfully. I suggest you question your own assumptions a little more carefully before make such a public display of ignorance.

Your suggestion that Christianity will be promoted at this meeting is utterly false and uncalled for. I clearly stated that this meeting is not religious. Perhaps you don't believe that. I can only then suggest that you come and find out for yourself before you attempt (poorly) to discredit the cafe's motives.

I would suggest you get out and join us for a few of our cafe sessions - it'll help you shake the cobwebs out!!


I'm not quite sure what it is that you imagine passes for philosophy at the Island Bar, but I would suggest that it certainly has more than its share of spirit behind it

_________________
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
----- Margaret Mead

Its religious twot and were in the 21st century now. Forget Kant and others.

I'm sure modern philosophy is interested in the the potential existence of God but not from the point of view of blind faith like Christians.

Buddhism is a psychological system, it fails completely to identify or even acknowledge the existence of God, Buddha was a man. Your first mistake in Buddhism would be to think that there deities represented anything other than parts of your own consciousness.



I bet someone brings the Jesus pamphlets.

"I suggest you question your own assumptions a little more carefully before make such a public display of ignorance. " Thanks for the insult, but as it's from such an advanced being as yourself from Tai Ping I'll accept it with good grace.


But you should be ashamed inviting Christians to a philosophy club

Hi Tavis,.. have to admit the first post had me a bit baffled.

I'm all for debating philosophy (and many other things), but wasn't quite sure what the cafe (PC) was all about when I saw that a priest would be talking (BTW..I've nothing against people's religious beliefs either even if different from my own beliefs)

But it did leave me a bit confused, thinking it would just be a 'religious summit'.

However, happy that you clarified, and I look forward to coming along

Anyway for christs sake LOOK at your poster ITS a CROSS and it says your lecturer recently published the meaning of Mary Magdalene

Your sending religious signals dude, wake up read your own poster DUH

Is "centering prayer" anything to do with philosphy which branch does it come under???? Christianity


You think the reverend will refrain from preaching HAH HAH

All the greatest philosophers were also theologists and 'questioning/debating' the existence of God'.

So no.... I don't think anyone should be ashamed, although initially I was rather perturbed by the first choice of 'talker'.

But it's an opportunity to debate and question at the PC cafe.

I'm all for that

I'm assuming this is a guest speaker. And there will be different topics each time.

And maybe the speaker will preach.... and If I get bored I can always leave.

So it's fair in the PC club to ask questions/debate beliefs from the speaker.

If so... then no problem Polikoop. What's wrong with that?

Maybe next week there will be an atheist talking.

And the week after someone talking about the Maya Calendar and the world ending in 2012.

You sound very set in what you believe in (no problem with that),.. but I've always had an open mind and am interested in philosophy, and with religion, they do go hand in hand, and have done for centuries, contrary to what you have said in your posts.

I agree with Tigger on this subject.

Like almost everybody else seeing the poster, I had the same first impression, the cross in the photo, the title, the speaker all pointed to a religious, proselytizing event, trying to convince us of the power of Christian prayer.

Knowing about the Philosophy Cafe for many years, and knowing Tavis, I knew this would not be the case at all. So I've asked him today in person on Main Street to clarify the purpose and aims of this very interesting event, which he has done very clearly and eloquently above.

Tigger, it should be very easy to find atheist, agnostic or 2012-doomsday speakers volunteering to introduce future Philosophy Cafe discussions, they can all be found right here on Lamma easily.

As a non-religious person, I'll nevertheless attend this first get-together and see how it goes. Judging by the long-running and multiplying regular Philosophy Cafe events in HK and all over the world, this is a great new initiative for Lamma and could become a great addition to our community, I think. It'll definitely make a most welcome change from the occasional late-night "spirited, philosophising" discussions in our bars and restaurants. Let's give this initiative a fair chance to get off to a great start!

_________________
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Well, Poilkoop - what to say? It's not helpful trading insults or simply pointing out the flaws in one another's ideas or information.

I understand that you are genuinely astounded by the fact that we would invite a person with a religious background to speak at a philosophy meeting. And the poster does have a strong Christian symbol in its photograph.

It seems there is a common assumption out there that religion and philosophy don't mix. I think that's because it some of us see the world from a rationalistic perspective and/or a scientific worldview, and given that we might assume anything religious to be merely unsubstantiated belief/faith it seems totally unreasonable for them to be brought together.

I did my degree in Religious Studies at a respected secular university in Canada. One of my great interests was in the relationship between science and religion. We made a documentary video interviewing scientists who came from a variety of different religious backgrounds (including atheism). I found it amazing how many highly intelligent people were able to reconcile these 2 apparently mutually exclusive worldviews without compartmentalizing their thinking. I found that science and religion were not necessarily so far apart. (depending, of course, on the type of religion. A fundamentalist Evangelical Christian might have a hard time with geology or evolutionary biology.

Anyway, philosophy was a very large part of my studies. My Honours thesis was on the subject of the philosophy of mysticism and my Master's Courses had a heavy emphasis on philosophical hermeneutics. I read mostly Hans Georg Gadamer, Martin Heidegger, and Paul Ricoeur. For me, religion was mostly to do with philosophy.

I think what's most important, is that anything is up for debate at a philosophy cafe. It would be problematic if certain topics were excluded. That would suggest that philosophy had no way to deal with those perspectives and think its simply not the case. Any topic can be dealt with philosophically. It's how we formulate our thoughts and questions about ANY topic that would tend to make it more or less philosophical. Saying that an idea it 'TWOT' for example, would not be considered philosophical. But questioning it with reasonable arguments would be.

Poilkoop, I'm sorry for insulting you. I was rather taken aback by you saying that what was being proposed was 'twot' If a cafe like this is to work, it's important not to insult one another. It's important to genuinely try to understand one another - and I think that means waiting before speaking and perhaps asking more questions before formulating a judgment.

I have no doubt from your many previous posts that you are a sincere person. I hope you will consider giving the group the benefit of doubt. perhaps reserve judgement for a few months and see how it goes.

Tigger, Thank you for your feedback and I look forward to seeing you on the day. Perhaps it might have been better for, the first meeting at least, to have had a less controversial topic. But, I feel quite strongly that this presenter will not be the kind of person to preach at people. She has an academic background and appears to rub shoulders with at least one highly respected figure in the academic study of religions, Raimon Panikkar. I believe Rev. Bourgeault will show us another side of Christianity from the the proselytizing one that some of us may be loathe to endure.

_________________
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
----- Margaret Mead

ok, as long as you're genuinely not a secret Christian group.

I agree.

This is why I love Lamma

Such diversity and differences of opinion/religions and lifestyles, yet at the end of the day, we have a damn good community compared to the rest of the world.

Maybe I should be a speaker to extoll the virtues of the opportunity of living here ...... never a dull moment for starters.... you may be bitten by a snake, hornet or break your ankle stepping over a frog... and get pissed off with speeding VV's and having to walk through a mud puddle past Yan Yan store, (I do!) .....but it's never dull

I think the PCafe will be a hit,.. ..... IF people want to attend instead of just 'bitching' all the time before even knowing what is going to happen, anonymously at the end of a computer

All the philosophers told us (what we already know) that life is a learning experience... so I'm actually looking forward to it

If it is a 'secret Christian group'... then you have the opportunity to leave. I know I will if it's all Christian/evangilistic preaching.

We do have this choice. It's a cafe and we do have a choice.

Come on Polikoop... why not give this PCafe group the 'benefit of the doubt'.......

I am.

You may completely disagree about everything,... and the beauty of it, is that this is OK! It's not a bloody job, it's a discussion (if you want)

Isn't this what 'philosophy' is all about?

I'm another one misled by the poster's design.

The key elements: the cross, the font, and 'Centering Prayer' and the whole design just shouted "earnest evangelical proselytizing" to my mental filters, and I didn't pause to read any more on my way past.

So I missed the first meeting. Hope to be there for the next.

In the mean time can I suggest the graphic designer puts the words "Philosophy Cafe" in big bold sans serif letters on the next poster?

Despite Bookworm Ken's "Prayer Warrior" T-shirt, see below, it was a very free-spirited and wide-open discussion about many issues with a big group of interesting people, with even a handful of off-islanders.

I'm looking forward to the next one, but a topic needs to be suggested and somebody willing to say a few words for a few minutes about it to get the next meeting off the ground. Any ideas and suggestions, please?

Here's a report and some pictures from the first meeting:

Oct 5: Lamma Philo Cafe - 1st Meeting

_________________
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