"indominatable moderator of the most gruesome forum in Asia":
Is that a compliment or an insult? You wanna start fighting with me now, Uncle Twinky-Winky?

You want to spoil the beautiful countryside of Lamma with a 300' high statue of me? What an aesthetical disaster that would be! The wind turbine definitely looks much better up there, as you can see from the artist's impression in the Lamma-zine and the Lamma News Blog.

It's actually just going to be about 70 metres high, including the rotor blades and will NOT be visible from most of North Lamma, except maybe a little piece of the top of the rotors. The EIA report with the details should be online by now at http://www.epd.gov.hk/eia, as announced last week. Just checking...not online yet, even though it was announced for early this week: Application No. EIA-099/2004, Environmental Impact Assessment Report: Renewable Energy by a Wind Turbine System on Lamma Island.

For your reference, Uncle Twinky-Winky, the HEC smokestacks are 215 metres high, THREE times higher than the wind turbine, even much higher than the 2 addtional, new smokestacks (120m) of the Lamma Extension in progress.

Uncle Twinky-Winky of TeletubbyLand, as we've started clearly, no fighting outside FC! Referring to people with horrific nicknames like "Enola Gay", connected to such a horrific event like Hiroshima, is definitely out for now! Funny, friendly, cute nicknames like Uncle Twinky-Winky are permitted, of course!

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100m or 70m?
Situated just about the same height again above sea level.

The earmarked plot is nestled just behind the spot from where you took you photo of "panarama mt" - peaking some 30-40 metres higher, [which incidentally has a clear view of most, if not all of YSW]

So even at yr revised height of 70m the turbine would still clear the top of the hill by 30-40m.
At yr original stated height of 100m, by a clear 60-70m.

So the Wind Turbine would be hidden?

& brightly coloured - sounds wonderful - maybe a nice fire engine red - that'll attract the tourists & save the birds - nice concept HEC.

As for the Artists impression of the Turbine on page 4 of this forum - it is positioned in the wrong place according to the red flag markers now showing the location & would be about 10m higher at the base.

As for the other artist impression in yr blog entry of 10/09/04 - how wonderful to have a nice concrete swathe through the greenery -
"The press release gives a good overview and background of this hot-topic project and claims that "By erecting a wind turbine on an otherwise barren hilltop, the project will boost Lamma as a tourist spot with educational and environmental value."
Seems we're all sold in the idea


And why the need for a turbine to measure the wind? As already discussed it would not be a reality to stick a few hundred of the things on Lamma.
Could they not just stick up one of those wind measurement gadgets the weather dept uses & compute how much electricity would be generated?
Surely they have the measurement of wind to power ratio fully covered by the fields of turbines already established in US.

Perhaps when HEC come up with the brilliant idea of coating Mt. Stenhouse with solar panels we can all pay homage & lip service to them & say - "great for tourism" - "How wonderful HEC are to make us the centre of their conservation efforts in HK".

Complete drivel - & even if your suggestion that they would not be visible from YSW - we all have to stay closeted in our homes & pretend it doesn't exist ?

To misquote Prince Charles - "It will be a carbuncle on the landscape"

Getting excited about this issue, are we?
I refer you to the "Magical Spinney Thing" story by Mr Newson about the "Wind-Giants" in the new Lamma-zine:

"It seemed amazing to us that Mankind, the great despoliator, could have constructed such friendly and lucky machines.
We called them the Wind-Giants. They were our friends, they held the gate."

* Local tourists will flock to the first and only wind turbine in HK, kind of a pseudo-ecological pilgimage, having their picture taken in front of it, flashing a cheesy grin and the V sign.

* It might become such a potent symbol of the Lamma lifestyle and a landmark that HEC will be convinced to put wind turbines on top of their 3+2 smokestacks.

* Some of us Lammites might be holding pagan rituals up there during the most windy season, worshipping the "Wind-Giants" as altars to the ancient wind gods.

* Any more ideas?

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Or pehaps another suggestion.

On Lamma fun day we could organise trips up there & watch the half or dozen or so hawks [that took up residence a couple of years ago when they were forced off Stonecutters Island]in that exact spot] get squished by the blades.

That'll be a landmark for eco tourism - or maybe we should ask the hawks to move away to make way for a redundant "Magical Spinney Thing" - they'll understand!!

Well, you're entitled to your opinion, like everybody else...

The height thing is still a bit confusing. The initial project report stated 100 metres high, while the recent SCMP story stated 71metres and the HEC press release didn't mention it at all. Knowing from my own experience how flimsy the SCMP treats facts and numbers, I'd suggest to wait for the official EIA report, already received by the EPD Dept. last week, but still not on their own website. Any day now...

Then you and everybody else will be welcome to submit their views and comments about the wind turbine to the EPD for a full month, after which the EPD will either approve the project, impose conditions (likely), bounce it back for further study (possible) or even flat-out reject it (quite unlikely).

If there'd be an overwhelming opposition to the construction, then it could potentially be cancelled or at least postponed for further study, as has happened with several other projects on Lamma in the last few years.
It's not too late yet to stop or change the project, voice your opinions & reasons to the EPD if you're opposed, but also if you're supportive!

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Yes that's a good idea, lets wait.
In the meantime HEC have already put down their marker flags at the location & already have the blessing of this forum community.
Or perhaps if it is aired in this forum, maybe we'll get a contra view to that of your own, and heaven forbid, maybe a large enough band of people might find a way to oppose or cancel the project.

Or perhaps we should all look forward to a field of these things covering the Lamma countryside - still get charged at the same electricity rate and proudly profess "But at least it's our electricity & we don't have to rely on the Power Station to supply us with the same product"

Posts have been moved. Flames to FC, the last OT post by Guy to a new thread in this forum.

Sounds like the labourer is too intelligent to be digging roads with his fluency of German

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I DON'T BELIEVE IT!!!

What happened to the german speaking labourer?

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I DON'T BELIEVE IT!!!

Still there, but now there are about 6 of them clad in white overalls, with a white truck & a big Blue truck that hurtles to & fro from the Power station.

Passing by their row of discarded barriers on every single trip [As shown in "HEC Rubbish"]

I've just received some very interesting and pretty negative info from an "anonymous overseas power station expert" who read most of the info and the stories I linked from my Lamma-zine article. I contacted him via mutual friends and asked him to comment about this quote in the recent SCMP article:

"Capital cost per kilowatt of electricity produced by wind is about $15,600, double that of coal power."

His comments:
"The data on your website shows that the turbine will produce 700MWhr per year, which for a 600kW machine relates to 13% capacity factor (i.e. 13% of the theoretical maximum generation capacity if it ran at full load every hour for an entire year).

The link I sent you yesterday (http://www.windpower.org/composite-85.htm) shows that typically wind turbines have a capacity factor of 25-30% (i.e. the machine will be producing half that of a typical machine).

The other article you sent me shows that this is approximately one third to one quarter of the capacity factor of the coal plants depending on how often the gas turbines operate (there is no breakdown in the generation figures for HKE and it is assumed that nearly 100% of the exported power is produced through the coal plant).

The very low expected wind turbine generation figures combined with the higher capital costs mean that the turbine, which is expected to cost 1.5-2% of the capital cost to operate and maintain, is barely cheaper to run than the coal plant on a per MWhr basis despite the fuel being free.

Therefore this will push up the electricity bill for HKE customers once all costs are taken into account, plus there is no power demand reason for additional construction."

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As for the economics of wind power, see <a href="http://www.collegian.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/09/14/41471e15b64b1">this article</a>. In Colorado you can choose to use wind power, and pay a premium of 1 US cent/kWh for the privilege. It doesn't say what the base rate is, but here it's about 85 HK cents = 11 US cents/kWh, so that's about 9%. But of course in Colorado there's no shortage of open uninhabited land.

I knew that

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"Under New Management" - the management takes no responsibility for any postings prior to 23/08/04
Well..er...., not really "under" it, but working with it. I think that's what I mean.

Sounds good - not only can we have our own Ilittle icon to HEC but we can pay extra for the electricity it generates

On another tack - ever wondered why a viewing pavilion should be built so close to the only recently decided upon site for the "Magic Spinney Thing"?

All the other pavilions have been built along tourist routes [with the exception of the one at the top of "Heart Attack Hill"] but suddenly about a year ago a pavilion was built right next to the proposed MST site(as previously shown by L-B), where hardly a tourist can be seen for weeks on end.

Very nice spot though it is, it doesn't really offer a refuge to villagers en route to anywhere as you need to climb a big pile of steps to get to it. But it does have a perfect view of MST.

Does that mean that because of the possibility of squished birds splattering anybody walking round the back of MST they intend closing off an area at the back of MST, or perhaps the whole hill?

Niiiice....

So has HK Government built a pavilion for HEC in anticipation of MST?
Not only do we get the HEC icon, but we've already paid to look at it - the deal gets better & better.

Even more magical things have happened.
Suddenly HEC have painted their marker in their pavilion - only a surveying marker, or perhaps a good spot to plant their information board extolling the virtues of HEC & MST.
One presumes they have permission to go round painting markers on Government property.

HEC already have their red marker flags dotted all over the hillside, including 2 newly planted ones which look as they are placed to require a whole chunk to be scoped out of the hillside.

But not to worry - we still have the consultation period before HEC move ahead with anything.

Just to recap - we're getting a dirty great big brightly coloured MST, we're losing our landscape, and possibly a chunk of the hill that we won't be able to walk up, but we do get to pay not only for higher priced electricity of which we already have an excess, we've already paid to look at it as well.

Since you seem to be talking to yourself I will oblige with a reply.

Ever wondered why the pavillion was built? NO!

Nobody ever goes there.. Well I was up there last Sunday and it was like Picafuckingdilly Circus; stand there for half an hour an you are guaranteed to meet someone you know.

I hope my reply serves not to make you so sad and lonely, you complete and utter toss.. thinghy.

Bye.

Seems you have named yourself aptly, but I'll pass on that for fear of annoying Alan.
But you misquoted me - I said it was not along a tourist route.

And yes, you are exargerating - I go up there 3-4 times a week for anything between 2 to 5 hours - this morning for example for about 2 hours- not a single person.
The same goes for most hours of the day including Saturday morning.
Sunday's it does get busier & yes you will see local people up there. But waiting for MST - I don't think so.
And tourists - hardly.

So you met somebody every half hour - not quite like Piccadilly Circus - nor anything like the route from YSW to SKW.

I look forward to your next well intentioned & meaningful comment

Though it seems suspicious, I think it's a coincidence. Two or three years ago I protested against the proposed concrete path from Luk Chau to Lo Tik. The plan collapsed on examination as it made no sense at all. However, that left some concrete money unspent that had been earmarked for the local VR's to piss away and they looked around for a way to spend it. So a "rain shelter" on the path down to Lo Tik was proposed. Somehow this morphed into the viewing pavilion we now have, though being a long uphill walk from the path it's quite useless for its supposed purpose.

Well you weren't there last Sunday. There is no exageration I encountered by chance more than a dozen people between 3:00PM to 4:00PM. 3 of which I knew personally. At Picafuckingdilly you are said to meet someone you know (by chance) within 30minutes.

In addition, there were a couple of deep breathers there for the entire time I was there. I nearly called the Police to have them arrested as I suspected they might be Fallen Gongers.

There was no misquote, I have never wondered why it was built.

I created the name Shitfer on the expectation that some thinghy will buy it for 500 dollars or more. How about it? If the name fits wear it and it seems like serendipty to pass Shitfer to you..

12 people between 3-4 pm on a Sunday - sounds impressive,

2 of which were [presumably] exercising and [presumably] from Lamma, 3 that you personally knew [presumably from Lamma], leaving a dramatic 7.

Taking into consideration your previous 33 posts and their content and allowing for a 20% exaggeration, leaves a heart stopping 4.6 possible tourists at the likely peak of the tourism period.
Hardly Piccadilly or the YSW to SKW route.

Similarly because you spent an hour there on Sunday - you make the assumption that nobody else was there during the other daylight hours of the same day.
Sounds a little like the rest of your argument.

Seems to me your trying to augment an argument that doesn't exist - I said the pavilion is not situated along a tourist route as opposed to the other pavilions - with the exception that I mentioned.

For fear of letting you continue your ranting, it seems that Alan may have come up with a plausible answer in that it is a coincidence [with the ensuing reasoning]. Except that there are very few coincidences when it comes to money & business.

2 other points though:
If you wish to continue your abuse & foul language, a forum has already been set up for this in FC;
As to your UserId - you obviously decided at the time that the hat fit, so you chose to wear it. Toddle on.