My Lamma Forums

[Mary]

It might look great from afar, and it may seem intriguing on a map (after all, visions of daily ferry rides to and from HK Island often for some reason seem appealing to the uninitiated), and I'm sure you’ll find a plethora of websites raving about the place, but the reality is that Lamma Island is a hell-hole of a place to ‘live’.

Appearances can be misleading and, unfortunately, the harsh reality is that Lamma – or, as the somewhat peculiar brand of ex-pat Bohemian wannabes who reside on this strange outcrop insist it be called, 'Laaah-ma' – is HK's putative answer to San Francisco/Greenwich Village/Alcatraz, and as such is predominately full of down-at-heel western drifters (it is for example the only place in HK where Caucasian street beggars are to be seen) who are escaping a fate of certain unemployment in their home states (largely due to their lack, or in some cases total absence, of any relevant skills, qualifications, or experience). Most if not all of these hippie wannabes have Thai and Filipino wives or, as is more often the case, 'wives-to-be' (viz., unpaid domestic helpers chained to the kitchen sink and bed poles). Typically they picked these girls (and I choose my words carefully) up when they were 'travelling around SE Asia' (the fulcrum around which any decent Lamma Island resident’s CV turns). There also seems to be an inordinate number of aging, divorced western males with 'adopted sons' from Thailand, Cambodia, and Laos, on this, the weirdest of Hong Kong’s outlying islands.

Nevertheless, the somewhat checkered pasts and tatty clothes of these Lamma drifters does not in any way prevent these desperados – all of whom pretend to be something they are not – from claiming superiority over all other foreigners in HK, and their outward hippie-like behaviour in no way means they strive to create a welcoming, free-for-all, Kibbutz-like atmosphere. Indeed, the island is infamous for having an ex-pat population that is clique and closed-shop to an extreme. In fact it would not be going too far to say that the situation on Lamma is reminiscent of a secret society. You'll see no end of Masonic-like head nodding (and you won't be accepted as a legitimate resident of Lamma unless you've been there since before the Hand Over in 1997). Most bars and pubs are members only (to avoid having to get a license) and in those which are not you will be extremely fortunate (or unfortunate depending on your point of view) for anyone to ever talk to you (unless of course your idea of meaningful discourse is some tattooed penniless drifter trying to cadge $50 HK off you for another beer – or two – and/or the ferry fare to HK Island for 'a job interview').

And it is not just the weird residents of Lamma that would-be residents of ‘The Island’ have to be weary of. Another rampant problem on this strange lump of land is the sheer number of dogs which are neither wearing a collar, on a leash, or muzzled. Attacks on humans by rabid hounds are common and dog shit is quite literally everywhere. As a direct result of the sheer amount of dog turds on the various pathways, going from one end of Lamma to the other can often remind one of playing the childhood game of Twister. In the dark with Lamma's lack of street lighting this can be quite a serious problem. My advice is to never wear sandals, let alone flip-flops.

In addition to the annoyance of the rampant canine excrement, you may find you encounter problems with having to get ferries to and from work. The second there is a typhoon warning they begin to cease ferry services to the outlying islands and you only have an hour or so to get to the ferry terminal in order to catch the final ferry of the day (or until the warning is lifted). It is okay if you live on Lantau as you can still ultimately drive or be driven home, but if you miss the last ferry to Lamma then you'll have to put yourself up in a hotel on HK Island or in Kowloon. This is not cheap by any means. Also, living on Lamma seriously affects other travel plans. For example, the first ferry from Lamma is 6am or 6.30am (or something). This means that you can never fly out of HK on any flight before 8am or 8.30am (which ultimately rules out a whole host of destinations, at least as regards direct flights). And when returning to HK you will often face the same problem as when there is a bad weather warning, for if there is any delay in landing you can again miss the last ferry from HK Island to Lamma.

Also, what will you do if and when your boss calls you to a meeting at, say, 7.30am? How will you get there on time? And what about when your boss keeps you in a staff meeting till 9pm on a Friday? What time will you get home? 11pm? 12pm? That's a long day, especially if you get called in the very next morning. Also, there is a prevalent (and salient) feeling among locals that residents of Lamma are not serious, that they are whoring alcoholics, and that they detest HK and the HK Chinese (remember that most if not all Hong Kongers like to live no more than one or two minutes from their place of work). The fact you live on Lamma alone will be reason enough for the majority of locals you work with to take a dislike to you.

Lamma Island? My advice is to forget it and live on DB, Park Island, Mui Wo, or in Sai Kung,

[toddy]

Ay madre. You best put on yer flak jacket, Mary. The trailer trash'll be after you somethin' fierce in the mornin'.

[Alan]

What a strange article. Cribbed from HK Magazine ca. 1990?

Gweilo beggars in the street? Members-only bars? Somehow I've missed these, having only lived here 15 years or so.

As for ferries, I worked in Central for 10 years, it wasn't a problem. 45 minutes door to door, and more comfortable than KMB or MTR. Never got stuck due to typhoons, you have hours of notice.

Well, by all means, move to DB. I'm sure the community there will commiserate with you for serving time on The Rock.

[caffles]

For your information Mary, NO BAR on Lamma operates without a legal licence from the HKLLB a private members licence is fully validated and legaly accepted throughout the territory, though terms of membership may vary, Furthermore (check your facts) there are numerous establishments currently holding full licquor licences.
Feel free to cast your ascerbic vitriol on this site, cause frankly most residents care not for these comments cause frankly none of it is new news.

[Sneaky-O]

Strange indeed. This isn't Spinoza in disguise by any chance?

Just a quick post. I'm off for a hard day's begging on main street.

[bbdog]

Google "Caucasian street beggars" than you'll see.


or http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?p=585724

[spinoza1112]

No, it isn't me.

First of all, most of the men that Mary has such contempt for, for having sexual instincts (ewwwwww!!!!), are decent chaps who support their wives and in many cases their wives' extended families, doing their bit to relieve a microcosm of poverty that would otherwise exist. Hilary Clinton might have blathered that "it takes a village to support a child": but in SE Asia, it takes a western man with a western job to support a village, and most of them do so without incident.

Western men can't "succeed" at jobs so structured by the class system in London, or the money game in America, that they cannot become Sensitive Cash Machines back in the USA or in Blighty, so they come out here in search of Slack. Big frigging deal.

Younger sons of younger brothers and mad bishops did likewise in the 19th century. They fled the class system in Britain, being unable to get any Slack from savage landlords and squires, and came out these parts. They did evil and they did good, but they weren't knuckling under to the clawss system and I say they did the right thing because nobody should have to be a servant all their lives.

If even the Sabbath was made for man, it is idolatry and Moloch to measure a man by "success" in jobs such as "financial analyst", because the content of such jobs is pure conformity to group norms. As my union brother says, who fled the white collar for the blue, office jobs are pure grab-ass, and it insults a man or woman to measure them by their success at such grab-ass, especially when their are real tasks to be done, such a driving trucks, doctoring, teaching, or helping people hump their Stuff as does Nick the Bookman.

Such grab-ass is about to immiserate the people of the USA in the financial degringolade that is occuring as I write, because too many people showed up for work...and mindlessly and uncritically sliced and diced bum mortgages into financial instruments that are now sticks of shitfire.

I get to work on time every day because I make the ferry and the matelots keep it on time: end of story. In fact, living close to work can make a person cut it too fine.

There are layabouts and ne'er do wells in Lamma. There are also layabouts, ne'er do wells, and complete psychos in those fancy apartments in Central. How dare you assault men for perhaps worrying more about some sweetie and sitting on the beach, than the idolatry of "oooo, my boss might want me to come in at 7:30 AM". If I need to start early, I stay in some sleazy Wanchai guest-house, or, if flush with cash, the Cosmopolitan hotel near the track.

There is a problem on Lamma, and it is hatred of men *qua* men for being chaps with John Thomases *per se*, coupled with male self-hatred which we see on this ng, such as came out in response to my art. It's as if certain women put the worst and most retrograde construction on the decency of men like Jim Callaghan, Mountbatten and Macmillan, each of whom did their bit to deconstruct the Empire, and decided they were wimps...for not making the messes my country made in Vietnam and Iraq.

Good, ordinary, decent men are compared to a single ideal of success such as Winston Churchill, an out of control journo on a tear and then the ladies, in a spirit of *faux* feminism, assume the worst of the rest of the lot. Is it any wonder that they get it?

[spinoza1112]

[Lamma-Gung]

I liked Mary's little rant, it's simply hilarious and laugh-out-loud funny, IMHO.

So full of simple lies and untruths, ancient clichés, easy-to-disprove mistakes, total distortions and extreme exaggerations. But it's well-written and makes a few interesting points, describing the ancient, pre-Handover cliché of "hippie island".

It's definitely nutritious fodder for a controversial Lamma-zine story, especially all the great feedback Mary got by stirring the pot in this forum and trying to aggravate us with all these accusations. Why else would she have posted this in this forum instead of the DB forums or an HK expat website? We should be glad and thankful that she didn't send her rant to HK Magazine as they might eagerly publish it almost without any changes...

Let the discussion continue, we can take attacks like that and fight back with facts and good arguments instead of mud-slinging, can we?

So far, the best feedback has come from Spinoza1112 and I personally hope he'll be staying loyal to this forum and be able to withstand his detractors. This forum would be a much less interesting place without him, if you don't agree with him or don't even understand what he's trying to say, as I do frequently.

More replies to Mary, please. Any feedback is welcome!
Would somebody, anybody, dare to agree with any of her points, I wonder?
Maybe one of our "layabouts, ne'er do wells, and complete psychos?"

P.S. This would look really great on a name card:
Layabout, Ne'er-Do-Well, and Complete Psycho

[Ed Banger]

I think you'll find that mary is a munter with jealousy issues. DB I can understand if materialism is a concern but Park Island? It would be like living on Iain Banks' Bridge.

[nobby]

Goodbye Mary, enjoy your dull, drab and colourless life in Suburbotopia.

[nobby]

Oh and you might want to tell your boss to shove it, unless your a complete slave/ass wipe/door mat

[Alan]

[Alan]

[Slezza]

As soon as I read the above just now I knew I'd seen it before.

It was previously posted on Dave's ESL cafe on 15 August this year, link:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=53294&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60

The author nick on that board is 11.59, who has written several similar rants that often include sundry borderline-offensive characterisations/stereotypes about particular "groups" of people in HK.

[Alan]

It's interesting to compare the original with the version posted here.

Changes like "your principal " to "your boss" to cover up the original teaching context, and strangely the infamous "drifter trying to cadge $20" is now $50. Perhaps to make it seem less 1980s. The last line "Lamma Island? My advice is to forget it ...." was also added by "Mary".

I do wonder what 11:59 was implying with

[Geno]

He/She is right about the fucking dogs though.

[spinoza1112]

[spinoza1112]

[toddy]

teehee (like you were)