My Lamma Forums

[Lamma-Gung]

Sent in by an Alert Reader, after he received it from Yung Shue Wan Village Head, Mr Fong Man Sang, yesterday, who got this from the Islands District Office.
Supposedly, the fax has been sent to the Rural Committee, District Council and Village Representatives to collect residents' pros & cons, but only Mr. Fong seems to have multiplied and distributed it so far? Have YOU seen this questionnaire already?

It says "Please consult the residents on this matter". Let's be consulted and reply directly by filling in this short questionnaire right now! Let them know how eager almost all of us are for these late ferries in and out of YSW!

Click below to view and print the full pages. Then fill in and fax or snail-mail the signed questionnaire. Or drop into the Suggestion Box at #57 Main Street. No email. Fax or mail is preferred! Deadline Wed, Aug 3!

[Zippy]

Can we insist on being the told the results of this petition / survey?

How many people on this site actually sent one in?

I did for 1.

[Alan]

I think it's a foregone conclusion. They have to ask whenever they propose to change hte schedule; and who would object to more ferries?

In general, when the government asks our opinion it's just to rubberstamp their decision, as all these sham consultations about development and such here. (There are four choices. Three are impossible on technical or safety grounds -- what is your vote?)

[Lamma-Gung]

Well, yes, in this case I hope that it's a foregone conclusion and the late ferries will start soon, even though I'll rarely ever will need to make use of them.
It's interesting that in this case again the govt. did NOT ask for the residents' opinions, but asked only the local politicians. This seems to be a usual way of "rubberstamping" most govt. decisions, for example the harbour reclamation where they also asked ONLY the local politicians and not the residents at all.

I still wonder why the Village Head seems to have been the only one circulating the questionnaire. He must have a vested, personal interest in the late ferries to bother gathering support, even from English speakers, the first time ever he's bothered to communicate with non-Chinese speakers, to my knowledge.

He's a big landlord (for example fighting hard to get his houses onto the planned, now cancelled reclamation) with quite a "hard-nosed" reputation amongst his tenants, I've heard. There's been a lot of new construction going on around YSW, numerous new Village Houses erected.
My guess is that they've got a hard time finding buyers and tenants as the population overall is still shrinking slowly, I believe and this new houses are way more expensive than the big oversupply of older flats out there.
A main reason for people NOT moving to Lamma is the lack of late ferries. So these late ferries will help the Village Head and his friends make more cash from sales and rent of their old & new flats from all the new arrivals moving here soon, they hope.

It was also interesting that not just one but three additional night ferries (all week and not just on the weekend) suddenly "happened".
As an insider told me recently, the ferry company doesn't really give a damn about us non-Chinese, as we have no choice anyway than to use their service. That's been the impression of most of us who've ever tried to contact them.
All our little initiatives and complaints about no late ferries over the years were basically falling on deaf ears, ignored totally and not even deemed worthy of any response.
But when the local construction lobby and some politicians - probably including the Village Head - stepped in and pushed for late ferries, it happened very quickly. Just my own educated guesstimate...

So this is one of these rare cases where us non-indigenous residents and the local construction industry have the same interest: late (and early) ferries, even though our reasons are very different. Well, so we'll all be happy, at least for now, till the potential influx of new people, especially some wealthier residents, might start changing Lamma slowly. Maybe for the better?

Luxury developments like the Lammarina - and another two (?) upmarket developments over in Sok Kwu Wan by the same developer - also need new and especially wealthy people moving to Lamma. The Sok Kwu Wan development might even trigger a new ferry service to Stanley, I've just heard from a "local authority".

I saw two Western ladies fill in their questionnaires at the drop-in box on Main Street, so my little appeal above seems to have had an impact in at least getting the word out about the existence and location of the questionnaire, even though it was extremely short notice.
We can ask the Outlying Islands District Council lady (Carmen Chan) about the number of received questionnaires. She's been pretty friendly and open in the past, quite forthcoming with information.

[Foxy]

LG wrote:

I still wonder why the Village Head seems to have been the only one circulating the questionnaire. He must have a vested, personal interest in the late ferries to bother gathering support, even from English speakers, the first time ever he's bothered to communicate with non-Chinese speakers, to my knowledge.

He's a landlord. Better ferries = higher rents.

For a really good ferry service, move to Discovery Bay.

[Alan]

[Lamma-Gung]

The feedback from the questionnaires seems to have been almost all positive, as expected.

Lammadonna told me this morning that the 2-month trial run of additional ferry sailings will start on:
Tuesday, Aug 16!

HURRAY!

[Lamma-Gung]

Well, that was misinformation from Lammadonna, failing to let us know about the new provisional start date of the late ferries: Sep 1!
Both me and my interpreter heard Aug 16 from her in person (see message above) and she re-confirmed it on Aug 5.

Just did a bit of research:
The ferry staff and managers had absolutely no idea about new late ferries, not today, not ever. And there's no printed announcement yet.

Checking with HKKF's PR Manager, the start of the 2-month trial run has been postponed to Sep 1 the earliest. The Transport Dept. got several comments and queries on the questionnaires they received which they have to respond to first, before the Transport Dept. confirms the trial run and starting date. The overwhelming feedback seems to have been positive but some people obviously added comments to the questionnaire, delaying the start for now.

The PR Manager promised to inform me directly and all of us ferry passengers at least one week in advance before the actual start of the trial run. Watch this space for further news!

I'll have to have another word with Lammadonna about this misinformation, causing several people to query me today about the missed start! Next time I'll have to double-check her info...

[Lamma-Gung]

The SCMP is working on a story about our late ferries. A reporter called me last night and almost everybody else who might have some insider info on this topic, including the relevant govt. departments, Lammadonna and HKKF. I know because I talked to most of them myself this morning.

To make it short, the 2-month late-ferry trial run is still pending, no starting date has been announced. The Transport Dept. hasn't approved the trial application yet because they've been overwhelmend by 300+ returned questionnaires from Lammaites - politicians and residents. As their middleman, the Island Districts Office, only sent the questionnaire to about 30 local politicians, they were pretty surprised about the number of questionnaires..

Many of the questionnaires had comments attached that the Transport Dept. has to process and respond to in some form first. All, except less than a handful, have been very positive about the trial-run, but some wanted more late ferries, different times, different week days, etc. These diverse opinions are the officially stated reason for the delay.

The late ferry trial-run status is active and pending approval, NOT cancelled as some people have been rumouring. I'll post more news as soon as I'll get them from various official (and unofficial) sources.

[Lamma-Gung]

Another little but important twist in the on-going late-ferry saga:

A Lamma-zine Blog correspondent spoke with several managers at HKKF recently. They claimed that they don't know anything about the new late sailings on the Yung Shue Wan route. One of the managers even insisted that it's highly unlikely HKKF would ever consider such a move, on economic grounds!

As I have spoken to the person in HKKF personally who claimed to have applied for the late sailings to the Transport Dept. in behalf of her company, this contradiction is quite startling. Likewie, the HKFF staff at the ferry pier also don't seem to have ever heard of these new late sailings.

Is this just bad internal communication inside HKKF - which wouldn't surprise me - or is it something more sinister?

T my knowledge so far, after having spoken to each party involved in quite some detail (Transport Dept., Islands District Council, Lammadonna and HKKF), the official status is still like this:
The Transport Dept. would have approved the official application from HKKF for a 2-month trial w/o any problem and the trial was announced via Lammadonna to start on Aug 16. She had personally lobbied for late ferries for years with her friends in HKKF. She was being pushed for late ferries both by residents and the other politicians, especially the ones in the construction and property business who are hoping for more people to move to Lamma to prop up their businesses. These calls were ignored by HKKF for years as they didn't believe that the late ferries could be profitable for them. As a private company they can put on ferries anytime they like, or not, no need to listen to anybody on Lamma at all.

They still don't want to do them, but when the idea of a trial came up they finally gave in. It's actually a great opportunity for HKKF as it might put an end to all these calls for late ferries. The trial might prove once and for all the commercial non-viability of late ferries. That would put an end to the demands on commercial grounds in the future. No more pressure and face saved for everyone involved!

But if we'd start using these late ferries as much as possible during the trial, then they might be pushed to keep at least some of them after the trial. But this is academic for now.

For now the trial application is stuck in Transport Dept. and has not been withdrawn by HKKF yet. This could happen if the TD insisists to change the trial based on the feedback on the questionnaires. Many people wanted more late ferries and didn't get the idea of a trial-run. HKKF would probably withdraw their application if the TD insists on changing the trial-run to more late ferries, as nobody in HKKF was eager about this trial in the first place.

As the feedback on the TD questionnaires was all supporting the trial, except 1-2 exceptions), this outcome would be a real shame. But it could well happen and who'll be blamed by all the official parties and HKKF for the cancellation?
All the well-meaning people who filled in the questionnaire (circulated by the Village Head on Main Street) and added their own comments. The blame game has already started...

More news to follow soon...

[Alan]

[Lamma-Gung]

The SCMP story was published last Sunday and didn't say anything new at all.
But it was just officially announced this afternoon from Ms Yu's office - via our Chinese forums and via Lamma-Por - that the trial is going ahead as planned from next Tuesday, Sep 27:

Late ferry every day at 2:30am Central - YSW.
Ferries at 12:30am and 5am from YSW to Central.

A two-month long trial after which HKKF will evaluate the results and will be free to apply for some permanent changes to the ferry schedule, or not.
So it's up to all of us ferry customers to prove to HKKF and the Transport Dept. during the next 2 months that some of these new times on some weekdays can be commercially viable for them and they should apply to make them permanent after the trial.

In the meantime, I'd say credit where credit is due. To my understanding of the entire saga, after talking to most of the key players extensively, it's Ms Yu's success and accomplishment to make this trial happen. It would not have happened at all without her bugging the ferry co. for YEARS. Only when she came up with the idea of a limited trial they gave in and applied for it to the Transport Dept. Let's see how it goes!

Late ferry parties, anyone? Out on the 12:30am and back to YSW on the 2:30am? Or join just the return leg, after staying out till 2am!
Blasting "Last Ferry to Lamma" from Red Star Rising at high volume again and again, the official theme song of this late-ferry trial, I'd suggest!

First pictures from the 2:30am ferry will be published on the home page!

[Alan]

The 12:30am ferry is "early" but 2:30am is "late"?

I predict they may continue the 12:30 from Lamma on Friday and Saturday. The rest, no way will they cover the cost of fuel even.

[Lamma-Gung]

I'll be waiting with the official announcement on the home page till I've confirmed with the ferry co. personally tomorrow. Burnt once before...

[Samson]

[Ed Banger]

After reading the article on the blog site I think we can safely say that the late ferry will be no more after the 2 months trial. If they were serious about it they would do a survey on how often people would use it and run ferries accordingly. I think they would find that late ferries were only really in demand on Thu/Fri/Sat night and on holidays. They'll use the excuse that because they are so quiet on Sun/Mon/Tue/Wed night that they lost money overall. They would also be better running the trial over Christmas and New Year as well as public holidays like the one just past.
Trying to corner them while they are being kebabed due to oil/fuel prices aint gonna work neither.

[Lamma-Gung]

I think that the ball is in our court now.

After years of almost everybody pushing for these late ferries, locals and non-locals alike, we've got an opportunity to use them and make them successful!
For example, if only the weekend late ferries would be successful (my guess), we'll be able to make a strong case to keep at least those weekend late ferries after the 2-month trial, maybe even willing to pay Sunday fares! It won't be an easy fight, but it could be worth our while!

In the meantime, the trial starts tonight! Anybody on for a late ferry party? I might catch a late movie in town myself to check out the very first late ferry and take pictures...maybe...

Anybody got a PDA or player that can play the Last Ferry to Lamma music video in QuickTime format as we've got no MP3 file available yet.

[Ed Banger]

I sincerely hope it pans out that way L-G.

i suspect that most people would be happy to pay over Sunday service rates for the late ferries from central as it would still be cheaper than a taxi to aberden and a sampan and compared to the prices of drinks you would be paying for in LKF/SoHo at that time it would be dirt cheap!

[Lamma-Gung]

bunnyrabbit wrote about his experience on the evening of 30 September (from the Chinese forum, translation courtesy of Samson):

"I caught the 2:30am ferry last night! Perhaps it's because the crew would like to get more sleep, Sea Supreme seemed to be running on full power and faster than usual. If only it gets us to Central that quickly on weekday mornings!

Also, although it was already early morning of 1 October 2005, a public holiday, the company only charged the weekday fast ferry fare - $16.

I think most passengers had a night out, so they were a little over-excited and loud. I wonder if their noise would affect the residents on the Main Street.

The ferry was about one-third full - about 100 people on board."

The original messages are http://www.lamma.com.hk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=22707#22707 and
http://www.lamma.com.hk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=22709#22709.

[Alan]