Lamma.com.hk

LAMMA-ZINE - CLASSIFIEDS - EVENTS - GALLERIES - LINKS - Subscribe - Donate - Advertise - Contact Us - Facebook

  WHAT'S NEW? Restaurant/Bar News ~ "UFOs vs. 2 Gigs" ~ Dora Tsang interview
  WHAT'S ON?    Multi-sport classes ~ Butterflies ~ Digging for Victory! ~ ARTISTICO
  LAMMA-ZINE:  Lamma Ferries App ~ Stumbling Randomly ~ Easter Crowds? ~ Föllakzoid  

It is currently Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:29 am

All times are UTC + 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 42 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:23 am 
Offline
Site Admin, Webmaster, Lamma-zine Editor
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2002 1:22 pm
Posts: 9951
Location: Pak Kok Village
This notice below appeared on the gate of Diesel's yesterday. Their landlord got approval to tear it down and build two Village Houses in this location.

The many long-time regulars in this very popular bar are obviously upset and have been asking me if there's anything they can do to prevent the end of Diesel's. After several hours of discussions over drinks last night, we have discussed many options.

Objections from patrons will be written and submitted before the deadline, July 5. Please do the same if you care. The more objections, the better. Letters and faxes are better than emails for objections, in general.

While the objections will probably not stop the re-development, it'll certainly delay it, giving time to the many friends of Diesel's to consider various alternatives, like talking to the landlord, organising signature campaigns, getting Living Lamma and local politicians involved, etc.

Any advice from our forum members how to save Diesel's?

The Lamma-zine will also be collecting memories, stories and pictures of Diesels's long and fascinating history. Please email me.


Attachments:
File comment: Notice on Diesel's gate, June 21, 2011
!DSC01947.jpg
!DSC01947.jpg [ 118.03 KiB | Viewed 6244 times ]

_________________
Click here for Lamma-zine stories and recent Lamma Spotlights of the Week:
Photo, Video, Person, Wildlife, Bird, Artwork.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:27 am 
Offline
over 300 messages posted
over 300 messages posted
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 4:30 pm
Posts: 325
Location: Behind the counter, have a nice day!
:cry:

_________________
I'm lovin' it


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:30 am 
Offline
over 300 messages posted
over 300 messages posted
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2003 3:00 pm
Posts: 328
Why would Living Lamma be involved?

Diesels is hardly a building with heritage to be preserved for historic reasons and I don't see an enviromental angle either.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:23 am
Posts: 75
gargoyle wrote:
Why would Living Lamma be involved?

Diesels is hardly a building with heritage to be preserved for historic reasons and I don't see an enviromental angle either.



It's probably the only traditional-style village house still standing in Yung Shue Wan Village - certainly the last one left in Main Street. Historical value?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:49 pm 
Offline
Site Admin, Webmaster, Lamma-zine Editor
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2002 1:22 pm
Posts: 9951
Location: Pak Kok Village
Some more photos from Diesel's:


Attachments:
!DSC01953-b2.jpg
!DSC01953-b2.jpg [ 53.51 KiB | Viewed 6215 times ]
!DSC01947-2-b.jpg
!DSC01947-2-b.jpg [ 81.59 KiB | Viewed 6215 times ]
!DSC01951.jpg
!DSC01951.jpg [ 199.15 KiB | Viewed 6215 times ]

_________________
Click here for Lamma-zine stories and recent Lamma Spotlights of the Week:
Photo, Video, Person, Wildlife, Bird, Artwork.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:36 pm 
Offline
Site Admin, Webmaster, Lamma-zine Editor
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2002 1:22 pm
Posts: 9951
Location: Pak Kok Village
A fine example of an objection letter I just got cc-ed on, sent by registered mail today. Feel free to use it as inspiration to write your own:
Quote:
To: District Lands Office, Islands
19 F Harbour Building
38 Pier Road

Ref: (136) in DLO IS 492/CLT/64

Dear Sir/Madam,

It was bought to my attention yesterday that a notice had been placed on the gate of the premises, with the above reference number, which is known to the locals as ‘Diesels Sports Bar’, a Lamma Island icon.

While I am sure the District Lands Office and the owner possibly want to try and upgrade the facilities for the good of the community, it is absurd to think that the demolishing of the aforesaid premises is to the benefit of the local community.

‘Diesels’ is an icon and as a 10 year resident on Lamma Island it has served me very well. It is not only a place where many beverages have been consumed but has and still is a place to meet people, engage in healthy debate, relax and offers a meeting point for tourists coming to the island to get a few pointers from the friendly ‘locals’. The constitution, clearly hanging in the bar, says it all.

As an upstanding participant of the greater Hong Kong business community, I have made many contacts and in some cases have even engaged in business relationships that have been initiated at ‘Diesels’.

The building and surrounding platform are one of the last old buildings standing, with many a story behind a very colourful past.

It is with the above in mind that i strongly object to the notice and hereby formally lodge my objection to this application to have the above premises knocked down or redeveloped.

_________________
Click here for Lamma-zine stories and recent Lamma Spotlights of the Week:
Photo, Video, Person, Wildlife, Bird, Artwork.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:37 pm 
Offline
over 400 messages posted
over 400 messages posted

Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:39 pm
Posts: 465
hic!

BY the way that photos not Diesels you're miles out.

The building next to the small pier is the old metal workshop next to the Lamcombe.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 5:05 pm 
Offline
Site Admin, Webmaster, Lamma-zine Editor
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2002 1:22 pm
Posts: 9951
Location: Pak Kok Village
Thanks, poilkoop, for pointing out this mistake.
A Diesel's regular showed me the photo on the wall and pointed the location out to me, but he was wrong. I'll correct that very soon.

I got the Chinese-only legend of the map on the notice translated (Thanks, Yogesh!)

"The grey shaded areas are the proposed locations of the balconies.
The red dots shows you the proposed locations of the septic tanks.
The pink areas only shows you the sites of redevelopments, with measurements in square metres."

Image

_________________
Click here for Lamma-zine stories and recent Lamma Spotlights of the Week:
Photo, Video, Person, Wildlife, Bird, Artwork.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Can't see graphics
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:01 pm
Posts: 28
Lammagung, I can't see the notice or the photos. Do I need a specific browser to view? I need the details of the notice to send a letter.

It's ok, I can view now I've logged in!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:47 am 
Offline
Discussions Forum Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2002 7:06 pm
Posts: 5038
Location: Tai Peng
He wants to build a "New Territories Exempted House".
Sure he does.

Of course it's going to be a commercial building, a restaurant or a shop.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:14 am 
Offline
over 800 messages posted
over 800 messages posted
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:24 pm
Posts: 849
Location: Shifting Sands
Lamma's spike in property prices has caused a building frenzy among the locals, and doubtless this is part of the trend. In the area behind the HSBC bank a new building has gone up just a few metres in front of the one behind it, completely obscuring its view. How on earth it got planning permission god knows - perhaps it didn't. Anyway, prices are about to go backwards - hopefully that will put a spanner in the works.

_________________
Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:16 am 
Offline
Site Admin, Webmaster, Lamma-zine Editor
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2002 1:22 pm
Posts: 9951
Location: Pak Kok Village
Well, whatever it'll become, it'll be 6 rents instead of one, 2 houses * 3 flats of slightly less than 700 sqft each, right on Main Street, ideal for two G/F shops and/or restaurants ... the benefits for the landlord are overwhelming.

From experience, after getting this approval from Lands Dept. how much time might it take till they'll actually start demolishing? Joyce told me that she's on a month-by-month rental arrangement, so Diesel's would probably stay open till the actual demolition starts, probably quite a number of months from now. The objections will definitely delay the approval by Lands, but it'll be very difficult to stop completely, IMHO.

The historic and heritage angle needs to be explored further. What's the age of this building and its history? We're getting input from our resident professional archaeologists who are working full-time on rescuing whatever artefacts get dug up during all the sewerage works. Anybody got historic photos of Diesel's, my archives only go back 9+ years?

_________________
Click here for Lamma-zine stories and recent Lamma Spotlights of the Week:
Photo, Video, Person, Wildlife, Bird, Artwork.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Can't see graphics
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:24 am 
Offline
Site Admin, Webmaster, Lamma-zine Editor
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2002 1:22 pm
Posts: 9951
Location: Pak Kok Village
debbie_lindsay wrote:
Lamma-Gung, I can't see the notice or the photos. Do I need a specific browser to view?
It's ok, I can view now I've logged in!

Thanks Deb, for describing the problem that you and others have had in not being able seeing the attached photos and notice when not logged in. My apologies for any inconvenience caused.

I've identified and solved this problem now. Only in this "Bar & Restaurants" forum you had to be logged in to see attachments. No idea why this happened, the settings are very detailed and complex on a forum level and I haven't touched them in a pretty long time.

I've checked all the forums individually and they should all be OK now. Please report ANY forum problems you might encounter and I'll try to get them fixed.

_________________
Click here for Lamma-zine stories and recent Lamma Spotlights of the Week:
Photo, Video, Person, Wildlife, Bird, Artwork.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Diesels
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:27 am 
Offline
over 100 messages posted
over 100 messages posted

Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:54 pm
Posts: 125
Maybe Diesels will be allowed to open inside the new property.
These are private buildings, we have no choice.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:31 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:01 pm
Posts: 28
I've also been trying to find out the historical value of the building. Can't find much online and will try the land dept. fyi, this is a handy website someone sent me, but I haven't had much time for research.

http://gwulo.com/where-to-find-hong-kongs-history

And here's an email address to lodge complaints with the lands dept... gendlois@landsd.gov.hk


Last edited by debbie_lindsay on Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:49 am 
Offline
Over 1,000 messages posted
Over 1,000 messages posted
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2002 12:28 am
Posts: 1028
Location: on line
thanks for the letter template. I've posted mine off.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:08 pm 
Offline
Discussions Forum Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2002 7:06 pm
Posts: 5038
Location: Tai Peng
Lamma-Gung wrote:
From experience, after getting this approval from Lands Dept. how much time might it take till they'll actually start demolishing?


The thing is, if the owner is worried that there will be objections based on the historic value of the building, he can simply evict Diesels and destroy it anyway, as the owner of King Yin Lei Mansion (registered with the Antiquities and Monuments Office) started doing when his development plans were blocked.
Then when it's a pile of rubble, reapply. (The King Yin Lei destruction was stopped and the owner was paid off with another plot of land after an outcry. So no downside for him.)

See http://www.conservancy.org.hk/heritage/KYL_E.htm

I'm sure the Lands Department is too spineless and slow to lift a finger to stop any such actions here.

As for the argument that it's a great place to have a drink, of value to the community, that will have zero impact I'm afraid, as it isn't the Chinese village community that uses it.

So I wish the preservationists well, but I'll be amazed if it's still standing in six months.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:34 pm 
Offline
over 100 messages posted
over 100 messages posted
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2002 3:44 am
Posts: 173
Thanks to Living Lamma for looking into preserving Yung Shue Wan's last remaining traditional village house!

Only yesterday SCMP published their letter "Ill-conceived plans to pour more concrete threaten beautiful Lamma". Maybe there will be another public commentary on Hong Kong government's efforts at redeveloping away the last remnants of North Lamma's cultural heritage.

The Conservancy Association might at least be able to provide some ideas on how to proceed with this issue.

I realize that the NT native males have a colonial-era pact with the government which allows them to build a three-storey block for their family.

I also realize that this most anachronistic (and many would say chauvinistic) of colonial arrangements is increasingly being (ab)used by "native village sons" purely for huge financial gain rather than to house their families. Obviously the arrangement has nothing to do with the protection of traditional values or culture.

So what about the community's interests?

From what I've heard the landlord in question hasn't even lived on Lamma in living memory, and as far as I know he has no interest in relocating back either. The demolishing of the last traditional village house - in the middle of Yung Shue Wan's Main Street and the tourist trail - would only serve to fatten one person's bank account.

The government obviously has the authority to solve this issue to everyone's benefit by simply appropriating the village house and the lot in question, declaring it as Lamma's cultural heritage and compensating the absentee landlord either with another lot to be developed or by handing him the much-coveted cash directly. Would anyone object to such an arrangement?

Time to write a letter of my own to the government...

_________________
"Non calor sed umor est qui nobis incommodat!"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:48 pm 
Offline
Discussions Forum Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2002 7:06 pm
Posts: 5038
Location: Tai Peng
pit wrote:
Yung Shue Wan's last remaining traditional village house!


There are still a few other traditional stone, one-storey houses around, but this is the only one in Main Street.

Maybe our photographers could document these while they're still standing?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:59 pm 
Offline
Site Admin, Webmaster, Lamma-zine Editor
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2002 1:22 pm
Posts: 9951
Location: Pak Kok Village
Next restaurant to close down because of redevelopment: Mr Kebab!

They got the same 14-day notice of rebuilding it as a Village House on the very same same day as Diesel's, 2 days ago. Their rental contract will be running out in mid-Nov and will not be renewed by their landlord. As these approvals usually take at least several years, the landlord applied years ago for redevelopment, even before Mr Kebab opened, I think.

After the huge amount of money the owners invested into this place (around half a million), for just two years, this is very unfortunate for Ali, Dogan and their staff. They'll organise some objection letters from their regulars, but it's difficult for them to find good reasons to object that Lands Dept. might actually listen to.

3 restaurants/bars being forced out of business in just a few weeks because of the property bubble (Emily's, Diesel's, Mr Kebab) and the apparent increase and speeding up of approvals to build more Village Houses (look at the noticeboards for frequent new Village House applications), who's next to go out of business?

_________________
Click here for Lamma-zine stories and recent Lamma Spotlights of the Week:
Photo, Video, Person, Wildlife, Bird, Artwork.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 42 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC + 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group