Lamma.com.hk

LAMMA-ZINE - CLASSIFIEDS - EVENTS - GALLERIES - LINKS - Subscribe - Donate - Advertise - Contact Us - Facebook

  WHAT'S NEW? Bike Clearance ~ Lamma Island bolt-hole ~ Beautiful island ~ Lamma Guide
  WHAT'S ON?    Quiz Night ~ Art Breakfast ~ Game Night ~ Summer Camp ~ MTB Enduro Race
  LAMMA-ZINE:  Free Dining Coupons ~ Andy's Seafood ~ Wildlife Contest ~ Lamma Life 

It is currently Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:46 am

All times are UTC + 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 72 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:37 am 
Offline
Discussions Forum Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2002 7:06 pm
Posts: 5046
Location: Tai Peng
A full government task force descended on the pier this morning at 9 AM. They were met by several interested locals, including myself and Liz Gower.

Liz gave them a good earfull on how stupid and unjust the whole procedure was, but of course they just shrugged it off.
There were about 50 or 60 bikes left on the pier at that stage.

Liz and I took 20 or so bikes that were not attached to the railings and moved them to the library area, where many other bikes had been parked.

Meanwhile the government workers were using boltcutters and took 30 or 40 bikes that had had notices attached -- they had a photographic record of bikes that had been stickered -- and loaded them on two VVs and eventually took them off to the waste collection facility on the reclamation to be dumped in a landfill.

Liz recognised one bike belonging to a friend, but was not allowed to retrieve it.

There was a reporter and a photographer from the SCMP to observe and since there were a few dramatic confrontations, it should get reasonable coverage.

So if you lost your bike today, check over at the library; if it's not there, you're out of luck.


Attachments:
File comment: Lamma's version of Tiananmen Tank man
P638.jpg
P638.jpg [ 66.6 KiB | Viewed 4004 times ]
File comment: Two VVs of bikes for the scrapheap.
P635.jpg
P635.jpg [ 92.67 KiB | Viewed 4004 times ]
File comment: Liz trying to save a friend's bike
p634.jpg
p634.jpg [ 103.52 KiB | Viewed 4004 times ]


Last edited by Alan on Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:45 pm
Posts: 28
Alan wrote:
Meanwhile the government workers were using boltcutters and took 30 or 40 bikes that had had notices attached -- they had a photographic record of bikes that had been stickered


So they only took bikes that continued to have notices after the notice period? so it might be fair to say that they are just clearing 'abandoned' bikes?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:53 am 
Offline
Discussions Forum Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2002 7:06 pm
Posts: 5046
Location: Tai Peng
olliereid wrote:
So they only took bikes that continued to have notices after the notice period? so it might be fair to say that they are just clearing 'abandoned' bikes?


Legal, perhaps, "fair", I don't think so. Unless you think that leaving a bike parked, locked to a railing for two days is "abandoning" it. At least half the bikes they took were in good condition and obviously not "abandoned", and most of those we rescued were also not clunkers.

This happens all over HK, especially in the towns in the NT where people actually use bikes, as here, to get around, despite the government's active discouragement.

There's a Facebook page started by a couple in Tai Wai, NT, who were pissed after the government stole their bikes locked on a railing in a similar clearance.
http://www.facebook.com/whostolemybikehk
SCMP story: http://topics.scmp.com/news/hk-news-wat ... s-seizures


Last edited by Alan on Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:01 pm 
Offline
over 100 messages posted
over 100 messages posted
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2003 12:09 pm
Posts: 195
Location: Yung Shue Wan
Even if the owners of the seized bikes were technically breaching the law, there should be some mechanism for reclaiming the confiscated property. Simply claiming the bikes without allowing any way to get them back sounds like stealing to me. That is the action appropriate to totalitarian states, not civilised societies.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:45 pm
Posts: 28
Alan, I think you misunderstood me. I didn't say its fair; i don't even think its legal. I said 'fair to say'.

i am saying though that it could be argued by them that they were only removing bikes that retained the notices - not bikes parked there since the notice - so they were only clearing bikes that they assume to be abandoned. Not adopting a policy of removing all bikes in future.

Of course I agree, as I had said when starting the thread, that 2 days is too short a notice. I also think that adopting a policy of keeping the pier free of bikes indefinitely is ridiculous. Commuting via bikes is to be encouraged, not vilified. And its clearly not an obstruction. Even if the pier were clear, people would still hit the bottleneck that occurs at the end!

I also think that the legalese on the notices is crazy. Such red-tape bureaucratic nonsense that neglects normal human behaviour. It might be said that the parking of bikes at the pier is normal, and common behaviour. And to suddenly be accused of illegally occupying public land with a 'structure', without any context or reasoning, is unpleasant.

Thank you Alan for your efforts this morning.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:22 pm 
Offline
Discussions Forum Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2002 7:06 pm
Posts: 5046
Location: Tai Peng
olliereid wrote:
Alan, I think you misunderstood me. I didn't say its fair; i don't even think its legal. I said 'fair to say'.

i am saying though that it could be argued by them that they were only removing bikes that retained the notices - not bikes parked there since the notice - so they were only clearing bikes that they assume to be abandoned. Not adopting a policy of removing all bikes in future.


Yes, that will undoubtedly be the government's position.

But perhaps just avoid the word "fair" since most senses of the word do not apply.

Also, the notice speaks of "illegal occupation", which isn't the same thing as "abandoning". They might prosecute on that basis if you challenged them. Hopefully a judge would be sensible enough to throw it out, but on paper it's a serious offence despite restaurants and other businesses on Lamma flouting it every day with impunity. It depends on who you know what you get away with.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:44 pm 
Offline
over 800 messages posted
over 800 messages posted
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:24 pm
Posts: 849
Location: Shifting Sands
The notices only gave 2 or 3 days' warning - so anyone who's been out of town on a business trip or holiday even for just a few days will return to find their bike gone.

I don't have a bike, but this is blatantly unreasonable and tantamount to robbery by the government.

_________________
Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:32 pm 
Offline
Discussions Forum Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2002 7:06 pm
Posts: 5046
Location: Tai Peng
Someone followed the VVs to the waste transfer station, where the bikes were destroyed in a trash compacter.

See http://www.flickr.com/photos/livinglamma/?saved=1

Two new bikes
Image

I remember those two quite new bikes, likely a married couple's, carefully covered in plastic, hooked up on the railings and locked together out of anyone's way.

At least $2000 worth turned into scrap metal.

Bikes being crushed
Image


That'll show those illegal occupiers!

They should have parked them in the legally sanctioned parking area, in Mui Wo (closest parking area in the Islands District).

Don't despair. I'm sure Yu Lai Fan has a plan for somewhere safe we can put our bikes when she calls the bike terminators in again.
Support the CPA, or have your bike destroyed.


Last edited by Alan on Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:23 pm
Posts: 57
This is ridiculous. I bet YLF is shaking her legs with a smirk on the face while this is happening. I don't have a bike but this is......... :evil:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:12 pm 
Offline
Site Admin, Webmaster, Lamma-zine Editor
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2002 1:22 pm
Posts: 10007
Location: Pak Kok Village
We'd love to hear from affected people! Please post your comments here.
In the meantime, bilingual notice submitted by Living Lamma:

"Did you lose your bike today?

Members of the public tried to save them for you. Some were moved to the area next to the library, but two village vehicle loads were taken to the waste transfer station where they were immediately thrown into the trash compactor to be sent to landfill.

If you lost your bike, we would like to hear from you. Please write to livinglamma@yahoo.com


您有沒有遺失您的單車?

我們的成員曾嘗試救回單車,雖然部份已經轉移到圖書館附近,但仍然有填滿兩部VV車的單車,被送到垃圾轉運站,經壓縮後棄置。

如果您遺失您的單車,請聯絡我們:livinglamma@yahoo.com"

_________________
Click here for Lamma-zine stories and recent Lamma Spotlights of the Week:
Photo, Video, Person, Wildlife, Bird, Artwork.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:28 pm 
Offline
over 200 messages posted
over 200 messages posted

Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 12:47 pm
Posts: 234
Such a waste of bikes...and landfill space...and tax payers money.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:28 pm 
Offline
over 100 messages posted
over 100 messages posted
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2003 12:09 pm
Posts: 195
Location: Yung Shue Wan
Let's all write to CY Leung - see if he really is a man of the people as he claims


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:25 am
Posts: 67
I parked my bike there this morning, on my way in to work. I hadn't used it in about a week and there had never been a notice put on it.

I happened to read the lamma forums on my way in and immediately called my girlfriend to retrieve it, which she kindly did (and believe me, appropriate chocolates and wine were brought back from Central!)

Just curious, would it actually have been removed since it never had a notice put on it? When I got home today I saw a number of bikes parked at the pier still.

Looking at those trash compactor photos makes me so angry! What can we do?!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:07 pm 
Offline
over 100 messages posted
over 100 messages posted
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2003 12:09 pm
Posts: 195
Location: Yung Shue Wan
It does make one angry. The sheer crass stupidity of tossing brand new bikes into the trash compacter deserves wider publicity.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:58 pm 
Offline
Discussions Forum Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2002 7:06 pm
Posts: 5046
Location: Tai Peng
fractal wrote:
Just curious, would it actually have been removed since it never had a notice put on it? When I got home today I saw a number of bikes parked at the pier still.


Probably not. They seemed careful to take only bikes that had had notices affixed.

They had a photo record of the bikes, so if you just removed the notice and left the bike in the same place it might have been taken anyway.

I wouldn't risk it myself though.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:06 pm 
Offline
Discussions Forum Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2002 7:06 pm
Posts: 5046
Location: Tai Peng
Media coverage:

We should have a story in the SCMP tomorrow.
Possibly also Apple Daily and Oriental Daily.

DBC Radio, a DAB (Digital, not the party) station, also available online, I think, at www.DBC.hk may have an interview at 10:30 tonight

Here's a press release from the Hong Kong Cycling Alliance.

Quote:
MEDIA RELEASE
28 March 2012
Gov't seize and destroy bikes on Lamma


Today, FEHD officers presided over the wilful destruction of private property and had it dumped into a trash compactor at Yung Shue Wan's Waste Transfer Station, while an EPD officer, supposedly in charge, looked on helplessly.

Earlier today, 28 March, members of various government departments - the police, Lands Dept, and FEHD, together confiscated bicycles that had been left on the ferry pier (the usually place to park bikes) and immediately took them to the nearby waste transfer station where they were thrown into the trash compactor and sent to landfill. Members of the public were given just two days' warning and though some tried to intervene to save the bikes, they were threatened with prosecution for "interfering with government officers".

The unusual action of destroying the bikes, rather than sending them for bulk auction, was a specific instruction for this raid, said the lead FEHD officer, who identified herself as 'Madame Chui'.

Jo Wilson, Chairperson of Living Lamma, said, "this is symptomatic of the wider problem of unthinking bureaucracy and a lack of education on waste issues, which is leading Hong Kong down a very unsustainable path. It is also particularly frustrating that government can act so quickly and efficiently on this, but not to requests to enforce the law on the illegal dumping of waste on agricultural land and a whole slew of suggestions that Lamma residents (and those elsewhere) have put forward for environmental improvement over the last 20 years."

Martin Turner, chair of Hong Kong Cycling Alliance, notes the popularity of cycling and the value it brings to the community on Lamma and calls for policies that support and further integrate cycling, including respect for property and appropriately located parking. In this, he urges that local residents' views be sought and respected.

Most of the bikes confiscated and destroyed were in rideable condition and some were expensive models, says local resident Alan Sargent. "Neglected bikes on the pier age quickly in the heat and salt air, so it's quite apparent when one isn't being maintained."

An issue that may be related is the planned cycle parking area near Yung Shue Wan pier, seen as an irrelevant boondoggle by many local residents, who are asking for improved parking along the pier itself. This would be cheaper and more practical as it is closer to the ferry, offers easier access, and would not destroy the coastline or impose tens of millions of dollars' worth of concrete on to this gentle location.

Jo Wilson added, "This reprehensible action is directly relevant to the debate on the incinerator as it highlights the failure by government to alter attitudes towards waste, even within its own departments."

Living Lamma has written to the Environment Bureau, seeking an investigation into today's action.

Resources
Photos of the bikes at the waste transfer station, by Jo Wilson. Please credit.
(all photos date 28th March) http://www.flickr.com/photos/livinglamma/?saved=1

See also the current Lamma Forum thread on this issue:
http://www.lamma.com.hk/forum-OK/viewtopic.php?t=11135

Further information available from:

Martin Turner, chairman, Hong Kong Cycling Alliance
9203 1505, <info@hkcyclingalliance.org>

Jo Wilson, Chairperson, Living Lamma.
2982 0920 / 9042 3241

Alan Sargent, Lamma resident, 2982 4804

Chinese language
Damon Wong Living Lamma. 6181 3139 <eg9515@gmail.com>


Issued by Hong Kong Cycling Alliance, with the support of Living Lamma

About the Hong Kong Cycling Alliance
The Hong Kong Cycling Alliance works to encourage cycling and to improve cycling conditions in Hong Kong by lobbying authorities, offering practical support to planners, and coordinating the action of Hong Kong's many cycling clubs and groups.

web: www.hkcyclingalliance.org
email: Info@HKCyclingAlliance.org

About Living Lamma
Living Lamma seeks to ensure that human impact on the Lamma environment does not destroy the characteristics which make it so attractive. In a two pronged approach, it responds to Government proposals and planning notices to lobby for careful development that will enhance the natural beauty of the island and make it a more pleasant place to live in and visit. Secondly it campaigns against actions that destroy natural habitat or create eyesores.

web: www.livinglamma.com
email: livinglamma@yahoo.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:16 pm 
Offline
Site Admin, Webmaster, Lamma-zine Editor
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2002 1:22 pm
Posts: 10007
Location: Pak Kok Village
Alan wrote:
Media coverage:

We should have a story in the SCMP tomorrow.
Possibly also Apple Daily and Oriental Daily.

They're all so slow. Very first media coverage in Lamma-zine today, afternoon, a few hours after the action with photos from several photographers and several links to more info.

By the way, below are my candid photos of the spreadsheet and photo record of the govt. officials used to select which bike with notices and notices removed to take. And the T-CPA (Temporary Cycle Park Area) today, including some of the saved bikes.


Attachments:
!DSC_8370.jpg
!DSC_8370.jpg [ 129.98 KiB | Viewed 1580 times ]
!DSC_8373.jpg
!DSC_8373.jpg [ 131.13 KiB | Viewed 1580 times ]
!DSC_8357.jpg
!DSC_8357.jpg [ 191.03 KiB | Viewed 1580 times ]
!DSC_8391.jpg
!DSC_8391.jpg [ 210.61 KiB | Viewed 1580 times ]

_________________
Click here for Lamma-zine stories and recent Lamma Spotlights of the Week:
Photo, Video, Person, Wildlife, Bird, Artwork.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: bikes
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:34 pm 
Offline
over 100 messages posted
over 100 messages posted
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:12 am
Posts: 120
I think this is absolutely disgusting. If you think how much time and effort Yu Lai Fan put into leaflets being handed out at the ferry pier at the time of her campaign, when it affected her, yet i haven't seen anyone leafleting about the removal of bikes at all, something that affects us, and it gets pushed under the carpet! I hope it does get some publicity, if it happened in other countries this would cause an outcry!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:02 pm 
Offline
Environmental Forum Co-moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 7:46 pm
Posts: 631
Location: Tai Peng
What this offensive event demonstrates is that the relevant government departments are NOT concerned with serving the interests of the large majority of people. They are acting against the interests of citizens at large. They are blatantly allowing themselves to be used as tools to further the interests of a vested minority.

2 days notice followed by destruction of valuable private property is obscene! This government action is clearly immoral. And their very organized way of going about it with photographs and police presence shows that they are not just carrying out a routine activity in ignorance of its unfairness. They are fully aware of how contentious and controversial their actions are. They must, therefore carry the full burden of guilt for the gross corruptness of what they have done.

_________________
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
----- Margaret Mead


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:13 pm
Posts: 2
Such a waste... 100% theft. I don't have a bike, but I would have wanted to take one of those "unreclaimed" bikes.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 72 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC + 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group