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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:00 pm 
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It's a $200,000 fine and 3 years imprisonment under the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Ordinance.

These are maximum penalties, but a serial killer is likely to get a higher starting tariff even for a first conviction.

Whilst i do sympathise with those who have lost their best friends, there is a simple solution to prevent a repeat: keep your dog out of other peoples crotches.


Alan, you just beat me to it :)


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:11 pm 
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I think we could go little wider on this law range as paraquat is harmful to humans as well. There have to be some kind of restrictions on using such a dangerous chemical without clear/legitimate intention where it can so easily harm the public.

The consequences of the misuse of such a chemical need to be informed. I honestly don't think this killer is a smart or educated person at all. She/he needs to learn this could get her/him in real trouble and we need to make sure it does (in a lawful way, I guess) when this person gets caught.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:10 pm 
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frustrated wrote:
I think we could go little wider on this law range as paraquat is harmful to humans as well.


I agree completely. Some people in Tai Peng spray herbicide in areas, immediately adjacent to the path, that are overgrown by weeds. I don't know that it is paraquat, or what it is, because the spray packs are not labeled, but certainly no herbicide should be sprayed where there is the potential that children (or pets) can get into it. It is unfortunate that our government thinks that any unlicensed, untrained person should be able to spray paraquat wherever they want. Even more terrible is we have found pesticides that are banned in Hong Kong, being brought in from mainland China and sprayed on agricultural areas in the New Territories. There is seemingly little control over pesticide/herbicide use in Hong Kong, and I am actually surprised that we don't read more reports (even here on Lamma) about kids getting into poison.

Sorry I can't make the meeting on Thursday, but thanks to those of you who have organized it.


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 Post subject: Dog Killer
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:04 am 
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Seems strange that they have decided to hold a meeting one hour before ours??????????? Anyways Fact is after speaking to both the CIDs, and the so-called village councilwomen, who both had excuses to not show at the meeting and were more worried that I was able to obtain the permission to hold a meeting? Anyways guess it'll be interesting to go to the 7pm one and listen to them say it's because the dogs are off the leads, etc, etc. Yes, I'm not disputing that fact but the main focus is lets catch the murderer who thinks it's Ok to do this shit!!!!!!!! I hope we have your local support?


Last edited by naga on Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:35 am 
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shapogung wrote:
It's a $200,000 fine and 3 years imprisonment under the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Ordinance.
These are maximum penalties, but a serial killer is likely to get a higher starting tariff even for a first conviction.


Actually, in reality, even if someone was caught laying poison meat, they would be unlikely to be convicted of anything more than littering.

All you could prove would be that they had dropped some meat on the ground.
You couldn't prove they had anything to do with earlier poisonings, and obviously no dog would have been injured by the one they were caught laying.

Even proving the meat was poisoned would not be clear cut: they could say that that someone had sprayed pesticide on the grass and contaminated the meat.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:56 am 
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I have no evidence but I believe that the poisoner is an old, uneducated farmer who got annoyed by dogs running over his crops. Poisoning is the traditional New Territories method of keeping the dog population under control and, as a farmer, he already has herbicides in his shed. It is very easy for him (and/or his friends) to soak pieces of meat in paraquat and drop them by the side of the road when no one is looking.
It will be impossible to prove that this man did it and I can understand the reluctance of the police to side with incomers (Chinese and Western) against indigenous sentiment.
About 7 years ago, after a spate of poisoning, a village meeting was held. Local people said they did not like poisoning dogs but they didn't know what else to do. We explained that there was a better way and we promised to desex the dogs and cats and educate people to make sure their dogs didn't cause annoyance. The poisoning stopped (except in Pak Kok). Everyone who has lived here for some years will agree that the situation with dogs and cats has vastly improved. There are no longer unowned dogs wandering around. Unfortunately there are still owned dogs who are allowed to run where they please and defaecate where they please. These dogs have caused a continuing annoyance and have sparked the anger of this man and the horrible deaths of many innocent dogs.
Of course I do not condone this man's psychopathic behaviour but we live in a world where every community has its share of people incapable of empathy with the suffering of others and the police can not always protect us from them.
I welcome the police initiative to hold a meeting and I hope they will make clear that poisoning is criminal and unacceptable. But we dog owners have to redouble our efforts to make sure our dogs do not cause a nuisance.
I also support the banning of Paraquat and much greater control over farmers' chemicals.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:32 pm 
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Another feedback from a Dr, after Dr Hans' and Dr John's comments above. I've asked Dr Mike Hilditch from the Wanchai Animal Clinic, an ex-Lammaite, for a writeup of his recent experiences trying to save poisoned Lamma dogs:

"Over the past week I have treated two dogs at my clinic suffering from the symptoms of Paraquat poisoning. I have been asked to write a few notes on my experience:

Two dogs from Lamma Island were presented at the Wanchai Animal Clinic on the 28th and 30th of September. They appeared to be suffering from severe gastroenteritis. They had been vomiting, anorexic and were about 10% dehydrated. A routine blood analysis indicated that they were in early kidney failure and moderate shock due to the fluid loss. Both dogs responded well to fluid and electrolyte therapy and appeared reasonably bright for the duration of the treatment. Only one dog had a little diarrhoea on one day and there was no more vomiting after the initial treatments. Both dogs remained off their food for the duration.

On the last day their breathing became more labored and at no time did we observe any coughing or notice any fluid accumulation in the lungs. Both dogs died overnight and appeared fairly bright the day before, the owners taking them for a walk in the local park. I have conducted a post mortem on both dogs and it tentatively appears that they have died from lung failure. The lungs, liver and kidneys had severe damage. I have taken tissue samples that have been sent overseas for histo-pathological examination. The Hong Kong police have collected tissue samples and will also conduct tests. It is likely, given the symptoms and from my observations at the post mortem, that these dogs died from Paraquat toxicity.

Paraquat is a widely available commercial non-selective herbicide that is commonly used in the farming industry. It is frequently purchased under the trade name ‘Gramoxone’, to be diluted and sprayed on weeds before planting. It is very quickly absorbed by the plant and has no residual effect. The diluted form that is sprayed is also unlikely to be toxic. Severe toxicity only happens when the concentrated form is swallowed.

The ingested poison will initially cause severe irritation to the throat, oesophagus and stomach which accounts for the vomiting. The absorbed poison will then cause kidney and heart damage. With a high dose the animal will die within a day or two from kidney or heart failure. Dogs that survive the first few days will die from deteriorating lung function. The two dogs we treated survived five and seven days respectively and both displayed exactly the same symptoms. There is no antidote for this poison.
My heartfelt sympathies go out to the owners and friends of the dogs involved."

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:41 pm 
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An update about Alba the Filmmaker's 2nd dog.

"Sad news, Ginger has reached her final hours. She will be put to sleep this morning at the vet's clinic."

She's changed the dedication in her "Lamma My Island" film, almost an idyllic & very positive "dogumentary" featuring many Lamma dogs and their owners. It will be shown at the Marbella, Spain, and Lucerne, Switzerland, film festivals later this month:

"The director dedicates this film to the memory of two of its stars, her dogs Guapa and Ginger who were tragically killed, along with many other pets, by a mysterious poisoner in September 2011, soon after the film's completion.
Maybe Lamma isn't such an ideal paradise after all."


One more case:

Widely popular GoGo passed away last night in the clinic, most likely from the same poison....

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:25 pm 
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Poster just received from the Lamma Police.
Pretty early, but if you can make the 6:40pm ferry from Central, you'll be OK.
Tough questions are expected to be directed at the experts in attendance, especially SPCA, AFCD and the "Fight Crime Committee".

Image

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:55 pm 
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It's good the authorities seem to be making an effort, I just hope they get the message across to the likely suspects (I imagine John is correct). Given how lethal paraquat is, the best way of preventing this happening again is to stop the poisoner/s from doing it again. Always walking dogs on a lead is reasonable in the village centre but isn't practical all the time on the rural paths. Even on a lead, a dog can easily swallow a piece of poisoned bait before you can react.

Totally agree with John that dogs shouldn't be allowed to wander freely without their owners, and there are a few owners guilty of this. All of this is no consolation to the poor owners who have lost their pets. I wonder if the poisoner has any idea how much misery he/she has caused?

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Last edited by Marc Antony on Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:08 pm 
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Heard the dog who recently died was walked on leash and didn't eat anything -- but she died the same.

She was walked on the path from Yung Shue Long Village to the fire station.

AVOID THAT AREA if you can.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:31 pm 
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Is that the way behind Mr Kabab's by the Beer Garden to the Cemetary? Why doesn't this "farmer", just put up a FENCE? Infact buy the fence from "Rich Million" and put up some metal posts, and take those gaudy things from my garden, so I can continue to do my work so I can get this program done, and give the Philopenos a nice beauty to party? Just string some patio lanterns, lol.


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 Post subject: DOG KILLER
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:34 pm 
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We, dog lover have to understand, our dog is not a pets, is our best companion,
don't just point your finger to the dog killer , never let the dog walk and wondering on the street by themselves, they just like kids in our homes, you don't let your Kids out by themselves and eat garbage on street and go to toilet everywhere don't you !!!!

Anything happen to the dogs outside of your house and out of your sight, is your responsibility ! we have to remember not all persons like dogs.........


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 Post subject: poisonings
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:36 pm 
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Are there a number of farmers in that area? The farmer that I chat with everyday seems a very nice tolerant fellow, always has animals comfortably roaming amongst his veggies (cats mostly) always has a smile and a wave for people passing. I would hate for him to be thought of as a pet killer and ostracized if there are other old, uneducated farmers in that area. However if it is him, as old as he may be, he needs to be educated and dealt with by the law!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:14 pm 
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SO CREZY!!!
IS IT A FARMER?
OR JUST ANOTHER STEP IN LAMMAS CREZY TRANSFORMATION?

Cheap rents gone (CHECK)
stray dogs gone (CHECK)
local bars going going gone ( )
Luxury apartments (CHECK)
waterfront re-development (CHECK)

I wouldnt be surprised if these are all related with 1 group of ppl

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 Post subject: Help need
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:25 pm 
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I am needing a map area, fire station, nursery school etc etc, so i can pin point all the locations that the killer has left poison for our dogs. Many thanks for your help.


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 Post subject: Re: Help need
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:45 pm 
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naga wrote:
I am needing a map area, fire station, nursery school etc etc, so i can pin point all the locations that the killer has left poison for our dogs. Many thanks for your help.


http://hk.centamap.com/

Zoom to the area you want and screenprint, paste into whatever graphic application you use.


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 Post subject: BAN PARAQUAT!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:50 pm 
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As the person who did this for me doesn't know Chinese, it had to be kinda symbolic rather than explanatory...


Attachments:
BAN PARAQUAT.jpg
BAN PARAQUAT.jpg [ 116.16 KiB | Viewed 2976 times ]
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:38 pm 
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If anyone's up for some reading before the meeting tomorrow,

http://www.evb.ch/cm_data/EvB_Paraquat_E.pdf


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:26 am 
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Hi, I'm Gary again.

Since I put up the posters for the meeting about a week ago, I've been receiving some emails with support, inquiries, and concerns..

It seems like more than a few people are concerned that the meeting might turn out as 'go against local' type of racism.

I need you all to know if you plan to come to the meeting that I will try my best to keep it most sensible/productive/peaceful so we could all reach something positive and feasible at the same time to solve this problem but I will never be able to do it without all the attendees being on the same page. It's a meeting. Of course there will be different views, opinions and suggestions. I am expecting that but I'd like to emphasize that we should never have this turn out as a racism chaos.

Please, come to the meeting only if you are ready to sit down and have a civilized discussion instead of getting angry or upset. I do have all those feelings come and go and I know a lot of people who are feeling the same but I also strongly believe that we will all have to put those emotions aside during the meeting and put our heads together for some real good resoultions.

Hope it makes sense to you all.


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