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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:44 am 
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A text message I received on Sat:

"Lesley's beloved dog, Jack, died in the Wanchai Vet Clinic last night.Dr Mike Hilditch is deeply concerned. He says that whatever this poison is, it poses a very serious risk to humans too and could be absorbed through the skin.

Please get the word out to all the parents you know. This situation is already so ghastly, we must try to ensure a child doesn't get harmed.
<HR>
Unfortunately, outbreaks like this one seem to happen every number of years on Lamma. Here's a photo gallery I published for the Lamma Animal Protection:
Poisoned Pets - In Memoriam (Photos by LAP, Sep 30, 2003)
<HR>
A Chinese version of this poster below would be strongly recommended and will become available tonight.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:30 pm 
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Poster in Chinese is done and out. Please, please i need all your support on Thursday. LETS STAND TOGETHER AND SORT THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Some facts about paraquat you folks might want to know before coming to the meeting.

1. Toxic effects ( excerpted from http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Actives/paraquat.htm )

Paraquat is highly toxic to animals and has serious and irreversible delayed effects if absorbed. As little as one teaspoonful of the active ingredient is fatal. Death occurs up to 30 days after ingestion. Absorbed paraquat is distributed via the bloodstream to practically all areas of the body. The lungs selectively accumulate paraquat, and therefore contain higher concentrations than other tissues. This develops into pulmonary oedema and other lung damage, leading to fibrosis. Liver damage occurs and renal failure may follow as the kidneys remove absorbed paraquat.
Paraquat is also toxic if absorbed through the skin. The minimum lethal dose by oral ingestion in human beings is about 35 mg/kg body weight, although less could be lethal without treatment. In dogs the lethal dose is 25-50 mg/kg and in cows and sheep 50-75 mg/kg(7). There is no vapour toxicity, but it can cause nose bleeding if inhaled.
No antidote for poisoning exists although it is recommended that the highly absorbent Fuller's Earth is administered. Hospital care must be sought without delay.


2. General Facts & Immediate Signs & Symptoms ( excerpted from CDC website)

-In the United States, due to its toxicity, paraquat is available for use only by commercially licensed users.

-Paraquat can be easily mixed with food, water, or other beverages. If the form of paraquat that is used is the form that does not contain the safeguard additives (dye, odor, and vomiting agent), people might not know that the food, water, or other beverages are contaminated. Eating or drinking paraquat-contaminated food or beverages could poison people.

-Paraquat poisoning is also possible after skin exposure. Poisoning is more likely to occur if the skin exposure lasts for a long time, involves a concentrated version of paraquat, or occurs through skin that is not intact (skin that has sores, cuts, or a severe rash).

-If it is inhaled, paraquat could cause poisoning leading to lung damage.

-In case of a large amount of ingestion:
pain and swelling of the mouth and throat -> nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, and diarrhea (which may become bloody) -> dehydration & low blood pressure
* Pulmonary edema (fluid in the lungs)
* Lung scarring
* Liver failure
* Kidney failure
* Confusion
* Coma
* Seizures
* Injury to the heart
* Fast heart rate
* Muscle weakness
* Respiratory (breathing) failure, possibly leading to death

-In case of a small to medium amount of ingestion:
* Liver failure
* Kidney failure
* Heart failure
* Lung scarring (may evolve over several weeks)
will develop within several days to several weeks.

If... you think your dog has come in contact with paraquat,
FIRST, DISPOSE EVERYTHING THAT WAS ON HIM/HER, chain, clothes, leash, name tag, everything.
As quickly as possible, wash any liquid paraquat from his/her skin with large amounts of soap and water. Washing with soap and water will help protect people as well from any chemicals on their bodies.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:06 pm 
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Manski {L_WROTE}:
i hope the perpetrator is found and brought to justice but i find this doubtful and would not solve the problem long term,


Given that everyone knows what everyone else is doing on Lamma I'm amazed that someone manages to lay poisoned chunks of meat around our paths without being seen by somebody.

I suppose if the murderer goes out at 3am to lay the poison then there's less chance he or she will be spotted, but anyone shuffling about leaving items in the undergrowth at the side of the road is going to look fairly conspicuous. My guess is that some people do know the murderer, but for whatever reason won't come forward.

As to catching the murderer not solving the long-term problem, I agree that it won't. But it will solve the short-term problem, and that would be good for us and our dogs.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:13 pm 
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I've just received these bilingual notices below both from the Lamma police and the District Council for posting in this forum.

Not sure how welcome (or not) these are to dog owners, but at least they explain the relevant laws and regulations....

Senior Inspector Poon writes that the "Police is carrying investigation into the above incident with a special team from Crime HQ of Cheung Chau Police Station.
They will interview all the witnesses to the cases as to establish the facts. At the same time, we will display notices to remind dogs owners to exercise proper control of their pets. We'll also arrange a forum to discuss the matter with locals at the office of the North Lamma Rural Committee [opposite HSBC] possibly in the evening on 2011-10-06 (Thursday). We will keep you informed when everything is fixed up. "


Not sure yet if this is supposed to compete with the Diesel's meeting on Thu evening or if they can combine the meetings, ideally. The Rural Committee office is pretty nice and comfy, so maybe it would be a good venue for the "official" part of the meeting before continuing in Diesel's afterwards?

There's also a Reward Pledge form for catching the dog killer that'll be circulated on Thursday by the Diesel's meeting organiser(s).


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:53 pm 
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Call from our Lamma Police Chief, SI Philip Kwok:

They're going ahead with a separate, "official" meeting about this issue at 7pm on Thursday in the Rural Committee Bldg, upstairs in the conference room, together with the SPCA and other parties to explain the facts so far and collect more info from dog owners. Bilingual posters to follow soon.

They police didn't consider it appropriate to join the meeting in a bar, but as it's at least one hour before the 8pm Diesel's meeting, it's actually quite good timing.

Get the "official" facts first and then move to Diesel's to discuss what actions to take about them....

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:17 pm 
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The police's notice is ridiculous.
I think their duty is to arrest the dog killer, but they have shifted the focus asking people to control their dogs.

Btw, I wonder if people remember that district councilor Yu Lai Fan has ever posted a banner with her tips to ask owner to "make your dog become lovely"?

Why didn't they post the regulation on killing and poisoning of dogs?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:27 pm 
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You mean this banner?

{L_IMAGE}

It basically says the same as the police notice, but that "Gentle Reminder" sounds so, so, so ... motherly! Almost like, "You naughty boys and girls, put your dogs on a leash!"

Well, let's ask the police about the exact regulations and punishment for dog killers....

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:52 pm 
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Lamma-Gung {L_WROTE}:
Well, let's ask the police about the exact regulations and punishment for dog killers....


{L_QUOTE}:
PREVENTION OF CRUELTY TO ANIMALS ORDINANCE
(1) Any person who-
(a) cruelly beats, kicks, ill-treats, over-rides, over-drives, overloads, tortures, infuriates, or terrifies any animal, or causes or procures or, being the owner, permits any animal to be so used, or, by wantonly or unreasonably doing or omitting to do any act, causes any unnecessary suffering or, being the owner, permits any unnecessary suffering to be so caused to any animal; ...

shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine of $200,000 and to imprisonment for 3 years.


The chance of anything like the maximum penalty being applied are slim to none, though.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:57 pm 
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Yes, that's the poster.

And thank you for your follow up :D


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:00 pm 
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It's a $200,000 fine and 3 years imprisonment under the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Ordinance.

These are maximum penalties, but a serial killer is likely to get a higher starting tariff even for a first conviction.

Whilst i do sympathise with those who have lost their best friends, there is a simple solution to prevent a repeat: keep your dog out of other peoples crotches.


Alan, you just beat me to it :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:11 pm 
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I think we could go little wider on this law range as paraquat is harmful to humans as well. There have to be some kind of restrictions on using such a dangerous chemical without clear/legitimate intention where it can so easily harm the public.

The consequences of the misuse of such a chemical need to be informed. I honestly don't think this killer is a smart or educated person at all. She/he needs to learn this could get her/him in real trouble and we need to make sure it does (in a lawful way, I guess) when this person gets caught.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:10 pm 
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frustrated {L_WROTE}:
I think we could go little wider on this law range as paraquat is harmful to humans as well.


I agree completely. Some people in Tai Peng spray herbicide in areas, immediately adjacent to the path, that are overgrown by weeds. I don't know that it is paraquat, or what it is, because the spray packs are not labeled, but certainly no herbicide should be sprayed where there is the potential that children (or pets) can get into it. It is unfortunate that our government thinks that any unlicensed, untrained person should be able to spray paraquat wherever they want. Even more terrible is we have found pesticides that are banned in Hong Kong, being brought in from mainland China and sprayed on agricultural areas in the New Territories. There is seemingly little control over pesticide/herbicide use in Hong Kong, and I am actually surprised that we don't read more reports (even here on Lamma) about kids getting into poison.

Sorry I can't make the meeting on Thursday, but thanks to those of you who have organized it.


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 Post subject: Dog Killer
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:04 am 
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Seems strange that they have decided to hold a meeting one hour before ours??????????? Anyways Fact is after speaking to both the CIDs, and the so-called village councilwomen, who both had excuses to not show at the meeting and were more worried that I was able to obtain the permission to hold a meeting? Anyways guess it'll be interesting to go to the 7pm one and listen to them say it's because the dogs are off the leads, etc, etc. Yes, I'm not disputing that fact but the main focus is lets catch the murderer who thinks it's Ok to do this shit!!!!!!!! I hope we have your local support?


Last edited by naga on Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:35 am 
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shapogung {L_WROTE}:
It's a $200,000 fine and 3 years imprisonment under the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Ordinance.
These are maximum penalties, but a serial killer is likely to get a higher starting tariff even for a first conviction.


Actually, in reality, even if someone was caught laying poison meat, they would be unlikely to be convicted of anything more than littering.

All you could prove would be that they had dropped some meat on the ground.
You couldn't prove they had anything to do with earlier poisonings, and obviously no dog would have been injured by the one they were caught laying.

Even proving the meat was poisoned would not be clear cut: they could say that that someone had sprayed pesticide on the grass and contaminated the meat.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:56 am 
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I have no evidence but I believe that the poisoner is an old, uneducated farmer who got annoyed by dogs running over his crops. Poisoning is the traditional New Territories method of keeping the dog population under control and, as a farmer, he already has herbicides in his shed. It is very easy for him (and/or his friends) to soak pieces of meat in paraquat and drop them by the side of the road when no one is looking.
It will be impossible to prove that this man did it and I can understand the reluctance of the police to side with incomers (Chinese and Western) against indigenous sentiment.
About 7 years ago, after a spate of poisoning, a village meeting was held. Local people said they did not like poisoning dogs but they didn't know what else to do. We explained that there was a better way and we promised to desex the dogs and cats and educate people to make sure their dogs didn't cause annoyance. The poisoning stopped (except in Pak Kok). Everyone who has lived here for some years will agree that the situation with dogs and cats has vastly improved. There are no longer unowned dogs wandering around. Unfortunately there are still owned dogs who are allowed to run where they please and defaecate where they please. These dogs have caused a continuing annoyance and have sparked the anger of this man and the horrible deaths of many innocent dogs.
Of course I do not condone this man's psychopathic behaviour but we live in a world where every community has its share of people incapable of empathy with the suffering of others and the police can not always protect us from them.
I welcome the police initiative to hold a meeting and I hope they will make clear that poisoning is criminal and unacceptable. But we dog owners have to redouble our efforts to make sure our dogs do not cause a nuisance.
I also support the banning of Paraquat and much greater control over farmers' chemicals.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:32 pm 
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Another feedback from a Dr, after Dr Hans' and Dr John's comments above. I've asked Dr Mike Hilditch from the Wanchai Animal Clinic, an ex-Lammaite, for a writeup of his recent experiences trying to save poisoned Lamma dogs:

"Over the past week I have treated two dogs at my clinic suffering from the symptoms of Paraquat poisoning. I have been asked to write a few notes on my experience:

Two dogs from Lamma Island were presented at the Wanchai Animal Clinic on the 28th and 30th of September. They appeared to be suffering from severe gastroenteritis. They had been vomiting, anorexic and were about 10% dehydrated. A routine blood analysis indicated that they were in early kidney failure and moderate shock due to the fluid loss. Both dogs responded well to fluid and electrolyte therapy and appeared reasonably bright for the duration of the treatment. Only one dog had a little diarrhoea on one day and there was no more vomiting after the initial treatments. Both dogs remained off their food for the duration.

On the last day their breathing became more labored and at no time did we observe any coughing or notice any fluid accumulation in the lungs. Both dogs died overnight and appeared fairly bright the day before, the owners taking them for a walk in the local park. I have conducted a post mortem on both dogs and it tentatively appears that they have died from lung failure. The lungs, liver and kidneys had severe damage. I have taken tissue samples that have been sent overseas for histo-pathological examination. The Hong Kong police have collected tissue samples and will also conduct tests. It is likely, given the symptoms and from my observations at the post mortem, that these dogs died from Paraquat toxicity.

Paraquat is a widely available commercial non-selective herbicide that is commonly used in the farming industry. It is frequently purchased under the trade name ‘Gramoxone’, to be diluted and sprayed on weeds before planting. It is very quickly absorbed by the plant and has no residual effect. The diluted form that is sprayed is also unlikely to be toxic. Severe toxicity only happens when the concentrated form is swallowed.

The ingested poison will initially cause severe irritation to the throat, oesophagus and stomach which accounts for the vomiting. The absorbed poison will then cause kidney and heart damage. With a high dose the animal will die within a day or two from kidney or heart failure. Dogs that survive the first few days will die from deteriorating lung function. The two dogs we treated survived five and seven days respectively and both displayed exactly the same symptoms. There is no antidote for this poison.
My heartfelt sympathies go out to the owners and friends of the dogs involved."

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:41 pm 
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An update about Alba the Filmmaker's 2nd dog.

"Sad news, Ginger has reached her final hours. She will be put to sleep this morning at the vet's clinic."

She's changed the dedication in her "Lamma My Island" film, almost an idyllic & very positive "dogumentary" featuring many Lamma dogs and their owners. It will be shown at the Marbella, Spain, and Lucerne, Switzerland, film festivals later this month:

"The director dedicates this film to the memory of two of its stars, her dogs Guapa and Ginger who were tragically killed, along with many other pets, by a mysterious poisoner in September 2011, soon after the film's completion.
Maybe Lamma isn't such an ideal paradise after all."


One more case:

Widely popular GoGo passed away last night in the clinic, most likely from the same poison....

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:25 pm 
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Poster just received from the Lamma Police.
Pretty early, but if you can make the 6:40pm ferry from Central, you'll be OK.
Tough questions are expected to be directed at the experts in attendance, especially SPCA, AFCD and the "Fight Crime Committee".

{L_IMAGE}

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:55 pm 
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It's good the authorities seem to be making an effort, I just hope they get the message across to the likely suspects (I imagine John is correct). Given how lethal paraquat is, the best way of preventing this happening again is to stop the poisoner/s from doing it again. Always walking dogs on a lead is reasonable in the village centre but isn't practical all the time on the rural paths. Even on a lead, a dog can easily swallow a piece of poisoned bait before you can react.

Totally agree with John that dogs shouldn't be allowed to wander freely without their owners, and there are a few owners guilty of this. All of this is no consolation to the poor owners who have lost their pets. I wonder if the poisoner has any idea how much misery he/she has caused?

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Last edited by Marc Antony on Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:08 pm 
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Heard the dog who recently died was walked on leash and didn't eat anything -- but she died the same.

She was walked on the path from Yung Shue Long Village to the fire station.

AVOID THAT AREA if you can.


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