The more I look at the proposal, the more I like it.

Nice tapered rubble mound seawall which will hide the horrible graffiti and the awful vertical concrete that we have now.

Beach all the way around the seafront which replaces the pockets of dirty and disease-ridden sand.

A nice promenade for everyone to enjoy the seafront from all areas - not just from the back of restaurants.

Alan and Marc Antony - I pulled you both up for talking total twoddle, however, I have no cross to bear. I do feel sorry for you two and those you surveyed. For whatever reason, you want the shoreline the way it is and I don't think you'll be able to change it. I've given my two pennies' worth on what may help you guys, other than that, I'm looking forward to seeing the plans move on.

Yes, I like the proposal too - with one reservation. The VV's will not only make it dangerous to walk there, but if they are allowed, they will use any open space for storage/dumping.

There actually needs to be stricter law on VVs. At the moment they are exempt from traffic regulations - but that's another thread.

Interesting that someone who likes turtles also likes to see bays "reclaimed". The two don't go together. Reclamation of near-shore areas is probably one of the major reason for declines of sea turtles around Hong Kong.

No, I did not say that.
There is much that should be done to improve the harbour.

It seems you can't make a post here without making up some crap and attributing it to me, then attacking me for what you pretended I had said.


Sorry, we're talking about Yung Shue Wan here. You seem to be looking at plans for Fantasy Island.

And you want a reclamation to hide the graffitit and get rid of the "disease ridden sand?

For God's sake, the graffiti could be removed in two days if any government department could be bothered. And there will be acres of new concrete for Lamma's budding Banksys to tag.

And the sand is polluted from effluent discharged in the bay. Even if you ship in tons of clean sterile sand it'll be just as dirty in a few months. But more likely they'll just bulldoze the same sand out further.

You mean to say there are no sleeping policemen left on Lamma, perhaps they could employ some of that 'undercover' lot?

Yes, but I don't remember ever seeing turtles laying eggs outside Man Fung Restaurant - and I suppose the first sign that they had actually done so would be additional items added to the menu.

Probably? Please substantiate this.

Whilst I do like turtles and there is a very funny youtube which I took inspiration from (let me know if you want the link), I am no expert in their patterns of migration. I would have thought any one of the following would contribute to this though:

1. Water pollution and water disturbance (from, inter alia, the ferry that you use)

2. Human interference (I presume you live on Lamma and contribute to this)

3, Light pollution (I presume you use lights)

4. Sound pollution (I presume you laugh, joke, converse and enjoy the medium of conversation like we all do)

Did turtles flock to the shores of YSW prior to phase 1? I highly doubt it. Do they flock to, say, tannery bay, HSY or power station beach? I don't think so.

Please don't attribute everything that is wrong with this world to this proposed reclamation. Take it for what it is - a vast improvement to what we currently see on a daily basis.

Yes, and kudos to the government for doing it in the face of ungrateful and irrational Lamma residents.



Rubbish. The extent of my "attack" is to tell you that you have been lying - which you have. Stick to the facts and I have no qualms with you. It is irresponsible however to make up random bits of information to suit your argument. I haven't been calling you a hippie or activist for what its worth. And anyway, are you not a hippie and/or activist? What's so bad about being either?



Fantasy Island is where you live. I think the plans will make the shoreline something we can all be proud of. I could be wrong, but that's only my humble opinion based on the current FACTS.



Yes. It is an excellent opportunity to clean the whole area up. The whole area is disgusting.



Acres of new concrete? 2.4 acres. Let us not exaggerate. And ALL of this concrete will be horizontal. Unlike now, there will be no vertical element - a tapered rubble mound. You have read the briefing note, haven't you? I don't know, I guess if our Lamma Banksy wants to graffiti on the floor, then we can't really stop him. If I spotted him doing it though, I would string him up though. As for the "Welcome to Lamma" on the vertical concrete walls that we currently have, there will be no opportunity for that anymore.



We may have to start calling you Billy Bullsh!t Alan. You are a first grade spin-doctor. Stick to what the government is proposing: this in the very least will give you a bit of credibility.

I said in my last post that I feel sorry for you because it is clear how important this is to you. You're making it more difficult to sympathise every time you come out with stuff like this. People aren't "attacking" you. This isn't a "conspiracy'. I don't really have a lot to say after this post until further issues come to light. Can I make one suggestion until then? Grow up.

Okay asshole.
That crossed way over the line.

Prove that or retract it.

That is personal and intolerable.

You are doctoring the idea that we are going to have some massive vertical concrete wall erected instead of what the plans actually clearly state will happen. This is either stupidity or lies - you choose.

What I am saying is not personal, it's just true. I don't know you and as mentioned earlier, you usually have very insightful things to say. On this occasion, not so much other than to scare monger. However, you called me an asshole (which is personal) so I hope you feel better now and we can move on.

I am not getting into a mud slinging match. Hopefully the poor sods that have to read this will take your views on the reclamation with a pinch of salt and actually look at the briefing note. Other than that, I have no wish to upset you or those who support you - just a wish to set out what currently are the correct facts.

Good luck.

Actually, big guy, this is probably better proof, since you wanted it.

For Nancy and for the other posters (for a bit of light relief), the I like turtles youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMNry4PE93Y

When you see this, this is what you will undoubtedly relate to me from now on!

Proof of what?

You accused me of lying.
Not having a different interpetation of a government document, lying.


Put up or shut the fuck up.

You're a very defensive and aggressive individual and it's pretty unattractive.

You said categorically that there is nothing in the plans that define what the sea wall will be. The plans clearly define that there will be a tapered rubble mound.

I don't need a definition of lying to know when someone is lying. True, that's your interpretation, but when you express your interpretation in the knowledge that it's wrong, that is a lie. Unless, of course, you didn't know (and didn't scrutinise the briefing note well enough - which begs the question what exactly are you arguing for if you don't know what is being planned?)

A lie is a deliberate falsehood.
Don't tell me you don't know what the word means.
Even If I happened to be wrong, that is not a lie.

You have called me a liar, and you cannot substantiate it, yet you repeat it over and over.

I don't call people like you liars, no matter how absurd the opinions you spout, since it's at least possible you actually believe it.

You're calling me a liar over the the fucking seawall?

No, we do not know that refers to a "tapered rubble mound". That is your Pollyannaish interpretation.

Yes.



Yes we do. I refer you to page 11 of the the project profile. The third item in the legend clearly states "Proposed Rubble Mound Seawall". How can you adduce even an ounce of ambiguity with what the intention is here? I am sorry but it is clear as crystal.

If you didn't know about the "Proposed Rubble Mound Seawall", then be big enough to say you made a mistake.

If you did know about "Proposed Rubble Mound Seawall", then be big enough to admit you lied.

Instead of firing obscenities which is vulgar (and which anyone could do, me included), lets try not to engage in a mudslinging match. I think we're just provoking each other. Why don't you just address this and put it to bed?

If we ever meet in the real world which is entirely plausible given we live on the same tiny island, I'll even buy you a beer. No hard feelings.

Alan - I would once again ask you to look at the plans - the tapered sea wall is whats is shown on the current plans - how do you not see this ?
You were trying to tell everyone to expect the verticle concrete slab type sea wall - mainly on the basis that you saw one on another Island

Essentially your evidence for this wall is only that you saw a bad looking wall somewhere else - the tapered sea wall that Iliketurtles and others, myself included, are talking about are what we see on the plans - so while we are trying to stick to the facts as presented, you on the other hand are not - there has been no proposed verticle slab concrete sea wall - at all - anywhere on these plans, but that is what you wanted everyone to believe they were getting.
One glance at the proposed plans will show you are in fact just making that up.

Also you keep talking of personal attacks - it seems to be you doing all the swearing and attacking - we have disagreed with you - I have pointed out that you seem to argue against things no one has even suggested doing - hardly a nasty personal attack . ? Calm down or take yourself to fight club.

Glad to note you admit you "could be wrong" and it's intriguing that you might feel proud of an arc of concrete and rubble. But what FACTS are you referring to? Please elaborate.

Thus far, the project appears to be supported by you, shapogung, xerxes and poilypoop. You have a strong ally in the government, but you are in a tiny minority (as will soon become patently clear) so far as Lamma residents are concerned - and that may yet be an important factor.

_________________
Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears.

That would be the plans put forward by the government rather than using doomsday scenarios of structures that dont seem to be included in those plans - they would be the only facts we have to go on at this point

Since you insist on repeating your vicious personal attacks, any further debate between us is impossible.

I'll ignore your posts from here on.