Just received this great summary of the meeting in the Deli Lamma:

Minutes of the Meeting Held Behind Deli Lamma
3 March 2008 Approx 7.30

Present: Around 80 people

First a synopsis of information to date was given. Following an unsuccessful tender for various outlying island ferry routes in Oct 2007, the Transport Department (TD) had announced in February 08 that they would re-tender with revised conditions in March 08.

Several Islanders responded to this article with the result that Selina Chow, Legco set up a meeting with TD at short notice on March 1st. This was attended by islanders from Lamma, Peng Chau and Lantao. Basically, the TD has tendered out Cheung Chau as the most lucrative route and Lamma (YSW & SKW), Mui Wo & Peng Chau are all left with no confirmed ferry operator. Lamma participants were largely in the dark until the 15th Feb article in the SCMP. TD stated it had followed procedures and protocol properly, by consulting our Rural Committees and District Councillors and are of the view that it is not their fault that we were not represented. TD was told that Lamma people wanted to keep the slow ferries as they are and don’t care about fast ferries. Fait accompli.

At the March 1 meeting TD confirmed that they will be settling the matter this coming Friday by retendering in a way that an operator will accept as cost efficient. This will likely result in a reduced ferry service, with only slow ferries, all at the existing price. TD is proposing reducing off-peak sailing to one per hour and knocking off about eight journeys daily. (This was generic to all islands)

Our premise is that at minimum there is no erosion of service and we simply work out a plan to achieve this. In effect the TD’s reasoning is backwards (i.e. cut the service to achieve a budget).

The existing operators contracts finish at end March and they have been coerced or have offered to extend their contracts by three months till end June. TD says this will not happen again. It appears they have known of this potential problem for months if not years but have not reacted to it as if it might go away. Now they and we have our backs against a wall.

At this time, Pak Kok is still within the ongoing terms of its existing tender so is not immediately affected, if at all.

There is no head of this group. We are all in it together. Some people simply heard about the problem earlier and attended the TD meeting. We must all take some responsibility towards positive action. We must put forward a community voice working towards a solution. Lantao has been aware of the situation for longer and has put forward a well-prepared document to TD. They have also submitted a proposed revised sailing schedule based on arrival time spacings rather than departures which addresses their problem and actually reduces the number of sailings without compromising the passengers.

Someone has worked on a similar approach for the Lamma schedule but there is a problem of boats having to “rest” so it is not as easy as it seems.

Currently TD will give no subsidies at all to the ferry companies. We have broached the subject of Environmental subsidies to assist the ferry companies. Need to think of creative ways to catch up to Lantao and offer an effective solution.

Working Groups can help this. Five Groups –
People who own businesses
Parents of School kids
Teachers
Property owners
Investigative group

Proposed schedule will be:
Off-peak to Central 9.30am-11.30pm
Off-peak to YSW 11.00am-5.00pm and 8:00pm-12:30am

This affects children but at the TD meeting TD said Children would be served.

General consensus in Lamma meeting was that it would be appropriate to pay more, i.e. a reasonable increment, for fast ferries and keep the slow fares the same to satisfy demand.

We were advised of action taken by Lamma Rural Committee – Transport Section Following a meeting with TD on Feb 22, on 23 Feb they had sent a letter to TD stating
a) current schedule must be maintained
b) two extra ferries to be put on – 2.30am from Central weekends and Public Holidays
5.30 am from YSW weekdays to satisfy manual workers requirements.
Also
a) They will not accept smaller boats than already exist. I.e. if a current sailing carries 250 passengers, this must continue. They will not accept say 200.
b) No sailing can take more than 35 minutes.
c) 70% of boats must be air-con
d) 30% cargo

Their proposal does allow for a break-up of the Lamma routes. They will consider two prices i.e. higher for comfort, lower for less.
Bottom line, Lamma Rural Committee – Transport Section will not accept any reduction in service.
We now know that the above Group is very much in our camp.

This Group will support the current ferry tender if they match their above demands.

We have received no promise of this from TD and no indication of progress. Their internal working committee is preparing the revised tender behind closed doors. TD confirmed at the Sat meeting that they would not be making any information public until the final decision is made (reduced ferries, slow ones).

SCMP has contacted us to place an article on the Islands plight (see Tues) and RTHK are planning a talk on Wed morning.

Our stand is that we want no erosion of service and do not expect an increase in service.
(not campaigning for any extra ferries or even overnight).

We asked TD about the possibility of getting new or newer fuel efficient, environmentally nicer boats. TD they told us to be prepared for the least we will get. We recognise fuel is of course a major problem and it is not realistic for the ferry operators to continue to make a large loss. We need to petition govt. to solve this situation.

The TD has confirmed that after several years of litigation with the previous operator, which was only settled end last year, the ferry company, which leases the pier, will be permitted to lease out space to retailers, etc. Town Planning approval has already been given. Govt. needs to put in fire safety fixtures, exits, etc which will take time so ferry companies will not be able to gain immediate income from this but it is a carrot for the future.

We have spoken to the ferry company to see if they will release numbers for bums on seats so we can perhaps be creative in moving a few ferries around.

We need to find out which are the most economical ferries. Perhaps it is cheaper to use the newer fast ferries and run then a bit slower for example.

A proposal for One Protest for All was mooted for the Central ferry pier for Tuesday evening. Possibly in conjunction with Lantao and Peng Chau.

Some key issues:

• TD is unlikely to cooperate.

• Government is unlikely to help.

• We feel incentives (and creative ideas) are needed in the tender package for ferry operators

On March 2nd, three people were helicoptered off Lamma for medical reasons. Fewer ferries will increase the frequency of that enormous cost. Can we find the cost of a single journey and put that to the Govt?

Government has been giving enormous tax gifts. The fireworks at Chinese New Year cost $100m of taxpayers’ money.

Qu: can we seek legal counsel to petition govt? A lawyer present said it sounds as if TD has actually fulfilled their obligations and followed legal procedure so the answer is no.

What we are seeking is ferries that are
Reliable
Convenient
Reasonable cost (not necessary very low)

Working Groups were set up and notes taken

Way forward:
Individuals are taking tasks
I.e. checking efficiency of current model of ferries

Checking number of staff employed (not to do anyone out of a job, just checking for efficiency)

Checking average number of passengers on different boats

Cost for maintenance and running

Inputting contact email details

Setting up protest and relevant press coverage

Reviewing group submissions to present to govt

Minutes

Tuesday morning review of progress to be attended by those able.

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Lamma-Por also called with an update from the meeting in Lammadonna's office yesterday evening, confirming much of the comments above but putting a different interpretation on it, not blaming her. She's a friend of hers.

She shortly mentioned a "protest march" to govt. next Sunday. Anybody got more info on this?

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There is mention of this in the SCMP today

Petition signing against down-graded ferry service is being organised, should be someone collecting signatures outside Man Lai Hotel / top of ferry pier today & tomorrow.

in response to soundby design's question, YLF seemed completely unaware that the tender was about to be re let, she said she had attend the Legco Transport Panel meeting on 22 Feb 2008 where,according to the transport depart website, the re tender was discussed and was proposed to be published in the first week of March.

She kept repeating that there was no problem, the govt would not retender without taking into account the views of lamma people, sadly she was completely unaware that the terms of the proposed tender are being decided this week by the Transport Dept, and if not for the present action being taken by us, without any submission by her office on our behalf.

With all due respect to Lamma Por she did not get there till well after 9pm when most of the people who were crowded into the office had left after giving YLF a hard time (chinese and westerners alike) about her non communication and apparent ignorance of the key elements of this whole tender debate.

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"There are old knights and there are bold knights but there are no old bold knights"

I think the price rise is imminent in view of the middle class vocal and literate minority asserting their point of view.

Has anyone considered the impact on the average Chinese Lamma family who possibly have 4 or more people who have to use the ferry everyday and has to pay out of your average meagre HK income?

Not to mention the rather sudden impact of other inflation.

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I feel inclined to agree with Nobby. I also don't see what the big panic is about losing the so-called 'fast ferries'. The small 'fast ferries' sometimes take longer than the 'slow ferries' and are death traps if anything ever happens. Of the two larger fast ferries, one or other is often out of commission anyway. And the slow ferries only take 5 minutes longer to reach Central. Much ado about nothing! Sit back, relax, enjoy a slow one...

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“We can confirm that the ferry has sunk."

To my surprise, I just got this letter from Feb 26 from our Rural Committee to the Transport Dept. They've asked me explicitly for it to be published on this website, in Chin. and English.
Here are both versions, just in case our many bilingual readers would like to compare the two versions. I've also posted the Chin. version into the Chin. forum, of course.

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Turnaround time of fast ferry is quicker, this may mean an extra run during emergencies such as Typhoons and makes the difference of whether one can go home or not.

Submitted by LammaFerry@gmail.com.



"Community Objection from Concerned Residents of Lamma Island For
"No Erosion of Current Ferry Services"
March 5, 2008

Presentation to HKSAR Transportation Department

1.0  Background
2.0  Community Concerns
3.0  Community Proposals for Tendering
4.0  Conclusion
5.0  Annex 1: Community Group Representations:
5.1  Parents Group
5.2  Rural Committee Submission
5.3  Teachers Group
5.4 Concerned Residents
5.5 Professionals
5.6 Homeowners and Property Owners
5.7 University Students
5.8 F&B Owners and Operators
5.9 Environment Group

Email LammaFerry@gmail.com (or email me) to get the full text of this concise and very well-written presentation! Sorry, I can't upload documents from hospital (where I'll be till next week) easily yet and the file is too long for a forum or the Lamma-zine.
Chinese version available as well!

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Nobby wrote "I think the price rise is imminent in view of the middle class vocal and literate minority asserting their point of view.

Has anyone considered the impact on the average Chinese Lamma family who possibly have 4 or more people who have to use the ferry everyday and has to pay out of your average meagre HK income?"

I don't think this is middle class protest by a minority of weathy Lammaites. Everybody will be affected, regardless of whether they work in a bank or in a fast food restaurant.

Low income families who live in the New Territories and work in central HK are also struggling to pay bus fares, some fares are even higher than the ferry fare we currently pay. Generally speaking i don't think the cost of transport in HK is too high, what makes it unaffordable for some families is the fact that there is no minimum wage and low-skilled workers are paid a pittance. Maybe demanding better wages for workers, social benefits for the unemployed and social security for the elderly is more sensible than expecting private ferry companies to run their business at a loss.

The government should chip in and subsidize the service until a solution is found. I fail to see how this reasoning is "middle class".
[/quote]

A few ideas (not necessarily 'great ideas' or the solution ideas - but more along the lines of brainstorming:

I think the hybrid bus system in HK with large buses operated by major carriers mixed with red and green minibuses of various ownership backgrounds makes for a highly efficient system. Why not consider a parallel for our ferry service. There could be large operator running a few large slow boats with reduced frequency sailings and an economical fare, combined with a fleet of independently owned much smaller fast boats that would wait - like the red minibuses, until they were fully loaded before departing. (not running on a schedule.) These boats could have a capacity of , say, 20-40 passengers and charge a high enough fare that, given their always traveling fully loaded, they would be guaranteed to be profitable.

Probably a less viable idea: HK electric has a large fleet of boats running between the power plant and Aberdeen and I, I believe, also to somewhere on the other side of the island like Sai Ying Pun. I have noticed that these boats seem to often be almost empty. It's a long shot, but would be interesting if some form of cooperation could be developed between HK electric and the Yung Shue Wan community that would allow that wasted capacity to be utilised.

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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
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"your average meagre HK income" What's that then?!

Ap Lei Chau actually. Some of their boats travel from Ap Lei Chau to Central to pick up their stuff there.

"your average meagre HK income" What's that then?!

Median monthly household income hovers a little below $16000, according to Asian Development Bank figures. However, 1 in 4 households live on less than half the median.

I like Tavis's minibus idea, incidentally.

I would have thought that a lot of people on lamma where well below that and would rather that the price of the ferry remained the same rather than have to pay another 6 dollars to save 5-10 minutes ( if your earning $40 an hour).

For a family of four that could be $960 a month.

So lets go ahead and increase the ferry fares while the middle class foreign body ventures out to fight low wages and inequality.

I'm sure you'll sort it out in the next few weeks mate.

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Yep. I haven't gone out and done any polling, but I'm pretty sure that the Islands District is going to account for a lot of that 1 in 4.
A few more dollars per trip might be OK for one person but when you've got a family these things add up in a serious way.