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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:35 pm 
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The Joshua Church of the Cannan Church seeks to post up a Giant Cross on the nearby hills, where there is barren of couse (not to spoil nature). They might, or I suggested also to put a recreational resting area (like the ones around the Winds), for people to rest like a park. This project however wont' be near initiating within 5 years as the JCC is naturally concentrating on growth and surivival (growth). It has made tremendous progress in the past year. One of the things they would like to ask Lammites themselves if they permit this project.

They already set up a cross in Easter, and took it down. They found a empty space. The Village authorities asked why they took it down.

This might be a good community project between Lamma Church, Joshua Church and Lady of Lourdes.

So would Joshua Church of Cannan Church be allowed to erect post a Giant cross (to be seen from the city. On barren unused land?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:03 pm 
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I'd want to know exactly where, and how it would be built.
Anyway, I don't know anywhere on Lamma that is "barren" land.

We don't have any deserts here.

And then the Buddhists would want to build a Buddha.
The Hindus would want a Krishna.
The Muslims would want a crescent.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:50 pm 
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Well, there are several "religious" icons visible from HK Island already:

HK's ruling Consumerists and Capitalists already have our #1 icon: the 3 chimneys!
The Environmentalists have Lamma Winds, obviously.
The Wiccans have the round pillars of the Trig Points atop various hills, connecting them to the lifeforce of the Universe (I think),

So why not erect a few more upon our verdant hills?

Could I ask for an absolutely massive electric plasma globe on top of Mt. Stenhouse (plugged directly into the future offshore Windfarm down there) for us Agnostics, please?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:33 pm 
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Alan wrote:
I'd want to know exactly where, and how it would be built.
Anyway, I don't know anywhere on Lamma that is "barren" land.

We don't have any deserts here.

And then the Buddhists would want to build a Buddha.
The Hindus would want a Krishna.
The Muslims would want a crescent.


>>> Oh a hill top,

but the Buddhists, do have a Giant Buddah on Lantau, and the Sheks have a temple by Rutterjee Hospital,

I think Barren as meaning no trees but a clearing of lower shrubs. But as I mentioned this just speculation. I'm sure they have to file some papers meetings and debates. As did the Marina guys.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:06 pm 
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sorry, but why don't you keep the crosses INSIDE your church and house?

You shouldn't be imposing YOUR religion on Lamma residents and visitors. You are free to worship whoever you want, but please don't add more visual clutter to our island.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:48 pm 
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I think a big one with a big digital time and temperature display on top and a rotating cross bar to generate power would be great. At Easter, we could nail some district reps to it if the wind drops


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:11 pm 
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You can't just claim a "barren hilltop" and use it.

If it were that easy, I'd be up there and building my own house right now.


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 Post subject: Cross
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:19 pm 
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Better to plant more trees on hills and keep religion to yourselves.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:46 pm 
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Quote:
sorry, but why don't you keep the crosses INSIDE your church and house?
You shouldn't be imposing YOUR religion on Lamma residents and visitors.


Quote:
Better to plant more trees on hills and keep religion to yourselves.



Couldn't agree more! What makes you think it might, in any way, be ok to subject others to your religious symbols?


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 Post subject: cross
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:42 am 
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I do remember a couple of years ago walking over the hills at the top of tai peng, behind the community garden and coming across a huge wooden cross there. it was around easter time but i've often wondered who put it there! maybe this was an earlier experimentation!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:31 pm 
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That's the Joshua church that did that on Easter.

About all this religious bashing, I though you guys were peace loving hippies and stuff? Why all the bad vibes? Stay Zen mannnn. It was a retorical question. Besides, I'm curious though as I walk around Lamma, I find it odd to see trash heap upon trash heap. So your points of "keeping it green, planting more trees", are unfortunatly moot, as this isn't exactly a gaia paradise. Infact. I am astonished to see all the litter in the village RIGHT BESIDE the garbage can. And please don't blame the Mainlanders, most of these debris are industrial, (ie those plastic ties that hold plaets together, ciggerate boxes empty pop cans everywhere, fields of ghetto garbage. in fields beside apartments. I'm usually picking up these litters everytime I get on and off the boat, and doing my circuit to my apartment. (usually going to the ferry (the recycle bins), and going home (the Tin Hau temple bin).

As for keeping religion to ourselves, Odd that the Tin Hau devotees are allowed to stage a opera in her honour. With flags all over the place using PUBLIC TAX PAYER facilities (the soccer pitch, the pier). And yes, I went to it, it was very very fun. but there it is blah right in your face, a big grandstand, awesome exciting wild music (opera instruments). Yet, quietly put up a cross on our own property that's for US to use, and you cry blood murder). odd ;).

It seems I have ALOT to assimilate and readjust to Lamman culture

:D but all this talk about the Cross on the hill, (not the cross mentioned above paragraph (on our own property), is of course just speculative.

Again on the point of keeping religion to ourselves, Now I'm not allowed to mention names here, but this church has been very positive on the lives of at least two of it's members, one decided to shut himself up in the world, after being shafted to dishonest friends. Another, found relief and cried tears at her baptism. How is bring hope and happiness to someone a bad thing?

I was under the impression that Lamma was a happy place of happiness and tranquility, and openness. I have no problems with new agers, buddhists, agnostics as neighbours. Just as I have in Canada's multiculturalism. And we all want the same thing on Lamma, (less smelly drains for starters lol), but just a quiet place. I chose Lamma for it's resemblance to a typical Canadian suburb. Quiet, (hard to get to (in Canada, as with the States, you drive and drive and drive before getting anywhere. I love Hong Kong, because walk a few blocks from IFC, and boom you're right where you want to be, if not, just take a street car or MTR for 5 min). Anways, here is a quiet Island full children, where they can be safe, have friends, ride their bikes play sports, and people co-exist. Was I mistaken with my initial observations of the Lamman lifestyle.

Now of course if Pastor Kw_n, was running up and down Yeung Shu Wan screaming about hell fire, and screaming about fiery brimstone nukes falling from the sky, and how sex and rock and roll is the devil and there's a gay agenda to spread AIDS or something silly asinine moronity out of some Jack Chick comic (those STUPID comics printed by Chick publications. That try and preach Christianity. But they have freedom of speech to say the stupidest bullshit. Then there would be problems. But no, the Joshua church doesn't do this, infact. All they do is just hold bible study. (and how you spend your time, of course is your affair, how someone else spends their time is someone else's affair, and if they're invited, then they should have the right to decide how to spend their time) this is essentially democracy. Hong Kong still is a democratic place is it not?

Well anyways. Peace be with you my neighbour. Namaste.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:09 pm 
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Vanoclamma wrote:
(on our own property)


Is it your property? If so, how much land has the Joshua Church bought and where are the boundaries?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:15 pm 
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foreign body wrote:
sorry, but why don't you keep the crosses INSIDE your church and house?

You shouldn't be imposing YOUR religion on Lamma residents and visitors. You are free to worship whoever you want, but please don't add more visual clutter to our island.


>>> Hehhehehe same reason why Tin Hau Devotees are allowed to imposing loud singing, gong crashing, operas in he honour for all the village for miles and miles to hear, with bright lights and a big hut? And no putting up a cross does not mean people SHOULD be COMPELLED to join. Just as much as people should be compelled to pray at the Tin Hau temples on the Island because they have a concert praising her. It's just art baby.

On this note of keeping religious artifacts INSIDE the house, funny all over hong hong there are shrines out in the open. Why doesn't this bother you? It surely doesn't bother me. I find it cool and colourful. Now I don't speak all Christians... but coming from Canada, where multiculturalism is second nature, (They have a huge Shik temple in Calgary, a huge Mormon temple, a Huge Buddhist temple, Mega churches, and a kick ass Mosque (and smaller prayer rooms), and get this in the Mount Royal College. They even have a prayer room where Catholics, Muslims, Agnostics, Mormons, can pray. We can't we have this here?

The University of Calgary has 5 different chaplains, ESPECIALLY a Buddhist one :lol: :lol: This is awesome. It's like that Yoko Ono's song "We're all water". And there really isn't much difference from Chairmao or President Nixon (both are ugly square headed fatsos, who hurt alot of people lol).



The essential spirit of New Age, is that all components of traditions, are merged into one interdisciplinary belief system. Freemasonry, claims that should you join, you have to be in what ever "creator" you want. And as a social worker in hiatus, finding your own unique fix to this very bleeped up world, would it be, believing in fictional Flying Spagetti Monster, or Kaless for you Klingons out there, or El Lune for you Night Eleves, or worshiping, Wotan, Ra, YWHW, ect, or even Sog Norath Chuthulu (actually no infantcide is illegal scratch that), or La Margra the Vampire God, or whatever, is your fix. Then go for it. But there should be opportunity for all beliefs out there, If a Muslim believes in Allah, and is happy then cool. If a Buddhist aspires to free themselves from this "Matrix" with the help of Neo the Bodisava (then cool), If a person wants to embrace the breasts of Mother Kali, awesome. Believe what you want just don't kill nobody.

This is Democracy..... don't you just love it? 8) Namaste brother.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:24 pm 
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Marc Antony wrote:
Vanoclamma wrote:
(on our own property)


Is it your property? If so, how much land has the Joshua Church bought and where are the boundaries?


>> not talking about the hill, and yes, we're allowed to do what ever we wish on church "property, especially since it's rented and the landlord is thrilled to death that we're using our own resources to pimp up his property" Eventually the church seeks to grow and get their own permanent place, and most likely the landlord is going to rent out the old shed that we renovated (with his permission). As for private property, Pastor, Kw-n owns his own apartment flat, which is his own, and he intends to plop up yes.... another cross. latter this summer there. He uses it to suppliment his retirement, and help suppliment the church's growth (beyond the orginal 15 core group) And the property has been very much improved, (it's that Warehouse looking blob of buildings (you take a right at the Book worm cafe), and you're pretty much there. past a few buildings). right infront of that Orange apartment, in Sha Po Old Village. All that used to be a bunch of BUG infested trash. Like who really wants biting bugs. So we cleaned it up, did some renovations (which heh get this, most of our materials were bought here, like bricks cement, I know I bought alot of sand paper for the cross),

See guys we're not so bad, as we build these crosses and other materials to renovate, we SPEND, spending helps the economy. And heh, there are TONNES of Christians out there rebuilding a ravished world (ie haiti, building homes, habitat for humanity (founded by two Christians), and we spend donations (tithes), and tax dollars (we're the boots on the ground, you can donate all you want, but it matters not unless there are crazy young, or old, or anyone who are willing to go into these hurting places and spend spend spend), And what was a bunch of garbage and rubble are restored. This is a parable of how God...restores our ..... nah I better not ruffle any feathers here. lol. I should keep it to myself.

But on another note, I wonder what that blob of buildings used to be that occupies some tennants and the Joshua Church. it seems to resemble some sort of storage warehouse? (There's a rectangle of cement (now a Big Revival tent), and a few rectangle blocks as well some square houses, and this shipping container looking structure. I figure it was some sort of warehouse. Then the owner decided to turn the offices into one room apartments. To tell you the truth, it looks like something from star trek. Infact most of these 3 story square apartments do, how they're all conjoined together, blended in with trees. It looks like some Bajorian buildings. Especially the Joshua church complex, the way it has raised steps, or tiled floors.

Namaste. Brothers .


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:33 pm 
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bc wrote:
Quote:
sorry, but why don't you keep the crosses INSIDE your church and house?
You shouldn't be imposing YOUR religion on Lamma residents and visitors.


Quote:
Better to plant more trees on hills and keep religion to yourselves.



Couldn't agree more! What makes you think it might, in any way, be ok to subject others to your religious symbols?



>>> Free speech for starters, and freedom of worship? :shock:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:13 pm 
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I did not have a particular view about the Church prior to reading this string of messages.

Now I do.

Leaving my view aside, I am just curious.

You posted something which seemingly sought views of Lamma residents on the erection of a giant cross on the island. Different people gave you their thoughts (all predominantly against the idea of putting up a giant cross in the hills), you got defensive and long winded. What's with that?

You have a "pre-set answer"? You won't get it, not here.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:42 am 
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Hope you do lots of good deeds in Haiti, etc, and pimp up lots of pig pens and derelict heaps of stones. Then if people ask you about what you do they will be interested, maybe even impressed. If you try to ram your good deeds and your faith down people's throats, it will likely be counter-productive.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:01 am 
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Vanoclamma I think it should not be a problem during Easter and other religious festivals but not sure I would want some blummin great cross looming over the island.

yes there are other religious symbols around hong kong - it is a multicultural place, but please do not try to act as though we would be opressing your right to freedom of worship by not wanting you to put up some great big cross, as thats not the case - worship away - you will find no problem doing that - but as people said you should also respect the fact that some people might not want your religious icons put up on the island.

You mention the opera house and the noise generated from that - please remember that that is here for two weeks a year - it sounds as though you want your cross to be permanent - that is a different matter altogether. I am sure no one would mind an easter or christmas parade or festival and would respect your wishes to do something like that for the same reason people dont mind the opera and lion dances etc.

Freedom of speech and worship is completely fine and no one would want to stop you from being able to worship your god and preach to people if you so desired - but please dont try and act as though your religious rights are being infringed because people dont want you to erect a giant cross on the island. How would not erecting one affect your freedom to worship ? are you unable to worship now without one ? I think not .


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:35 am 
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On the theme of religious icons, it has not passed my notice that nearly all the restaurants on the island are proselytising support for a separate dangerous cult.
In nearly every restaurant do they not offer worship to the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Everywhere I see pastafarians worshipping at bowls of noodles, spaghetti and even lasagne.
If they want us to convert I say thay should be open about it and have a giant bowl of spaghetti at the Ferry Pier where all can pay homage.
Bring on the Spaghetti


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:34 pm 
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Vanoclamma, why are you talking about freedom of speech and religion? What has erecting a giant cross in a public place got to do with these freedoms?
You are free to believe in aliens (and talk about them) as far as i am concerned, but i wouldn't want to be greeted by a statue of ET every time i step out of my flat.

The Cantonese Opera is a cultural expression that i don't normally associate with religion, but if you do, no worries, that impressive mat shed theater is just a temporary structure.

If you erect a huge cross, then somebody else may want to erect another huge religious symbol and where do you draw the line? Would Satanists be allowed to worship too, in the name of religious freedom? Those who worship money would put up a huge neon dollar sign....The Lamma skyline would resemble Las Vegas!


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