I think the response from the ferry company is nonsense.

In today's day and age with GPS/Radar/AIS,.... ferries should not have come that close, even in foggy weather. Someone was not paying attention IMHO.

I can understand detection of a small sampan going unnoticed,.. but not another big ferry.

Watching the AIS updates at MarineTraffic.com for over an hour now, on a very clear day, 8:40 - 10am. But I've NEVER seen any HKKF vessel around Lamma, even though there are numerous other ships near Lamma displayed and moving around?

All the HKKF vessels are updated almost every minute while moving around in HK harbour but seem to vanish from AIS after passing Green Island, simply freezing, even when refreshing the display, not showing up at all till they return from Lamma and enter HK harbour again.
The farthest south some of HKKF's vessels seem to get is Cyberport, no display ever south of Cyberport. For example, Sea Superb and Sea Superior have been frozen close to Green Island for 15 minutes now while the other ships nearby are moving around normally.

Any of our marine experts got an idea, why this happens.

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They enter an alternative universe? Or vanish into The Fog?

Or, more likely, the captain switches off his radar and lights up a cigarette ... time to sit back and relax ...

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Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears.

I wouldn't really trust that the data at MarineTraffic.com are accurate - one time I tried to check Hong Kong's traffic there, the data was updated like once an hour.

I'm not an expert at all, but I notice that the site depends on volunteers to monitor and relay the info.

So there's no guarantee of the quality of coverage.
Looks like they have decent coverage in the central harbour, but out here, not so much.
See http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/addyou ... level1=150
They'll sponsor you if you want to set up a station, maybe someone wants to do that.
"The most important factors (but not mandatory) for a good reception is the elevation (height from sea level – the higher the better) of your location and the clear view to the horizon, without obstacles."


Also found several other AIS mapping sites.
e.g. http://www.shiptracking.eu/ais/#/map is another free one.

This is all pretty fishy.
Why would a ferry captain turn off AIS and radar?

Only thing I can think of is that they're taking an unauthorised route and don't want to be tracked.

There may be a perfectly innocent explanation, but HKKF is obviously just stonewalling.

They most probably turn all the equipment off whilst crossing the Lamma Channel, whilst they play a game of .... 'How close to this Passing Tanker' can we get?'

I'm always amazed when we pass very close to the end of a huge ship through the channel, and the Lamma ferry has to swerve then bank sharply to the left heading for the harbour.!

I've never understood why they need to do this, as the huge vessels are incredibly VISIBLE with the naked eye from a huge distance, but the ferries go SO CLOSE which is unneseccary in the Lamma Channel.

Think it's a case of 'the boys with their toys'

OK... I don't know how to spell uneccessary

I beg to differ. The pilots (captains?) have done a good - and thankless - job on each of my 100's and 100's of journeys over and back.The most precarious one being a memorable 10:30pm ferry back to to Lamma in 2004. At night. In thick, brutal fog. Which was terrifying. And we got to Lamma in one piece. Just guided on the final stretch (we thought) by the fog lights on the Yung Shue Wan ferry pier. I just wanted to hug the pilot. But didn't. Regrettably.

I only remember one boys-with-their-toys journey about 5 years ago when the Lamma ferry from Central seemed to be trying to....race and pussy-foot with the........DB Ferry. An ex-pat passenger went into the pilot's cabin on that occasion to...complain.

That's what a ferry captain is supposed to do! If he fails just once he should be sacked.



You must control these lustful urges - you might distract the captain!

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Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears.

Havent paid attention to this thread for a while, didnt know it kept going.

Anyway - That relates to another post here. There are just no volunteer stations that send info that covers this area. You may notice that cell calls often drop while in between Pak Kok and Green island and then pick up again. I am sure this is when you hit the shadow of HK island and haven't picked up the Lamma Island Cell(or some tower that has line of site here). Some one needs to volunteer either on the NE side of lamma or in the cyberport area to cover this area on their display.

FYI, the HK - Green Island gap is a notorious deadspot for VHF radio communications amongst the sailors here. You are essentially in a canyon.

Now, if you are transiting the area in a boat, and another boat is at the same time - the VHF communications (and therefore AIS) between those to vessels would be no problem, as line of site is no problem,but contacting via radio (or seeing on AIS) other people out of the immediate area will be difficult.

Now, that doesnt mean that AIS data from far away vessels disappears.The AIS only expects to receive a broadcast every several minutes from each vessel. And the AIS on your boat even displays vessels in a distinct color that it has not received a broadcast from in a certain time (15m i think) before removing them after a certain time (30 min IIRC)

For all these reasons, as noted, DO NOT USE THE INTERNET AIS DATA FOR ANYTHING MORE THAN INTEREST purposes. Even on the chartplotter on the boat I only use it as ONE of my tools.

There is an axiom amongst (successful) navigators;

The prudent mariner NEVER relies on a single method of navigation.

Use ALL available tools to avoid collision with other vessels or land.
Most commonly;

Eyes
Ears
Radar
GPS
AIS
Electronic Charts
Paper Charts / Dead reckoning (calculating current position based on heading, speed, time from a known point, don't forget set and drift from currents)
Verbal communications via radio

AAAAAND

COMMON SENSE!

The instructor at my USCG Masters course told us that being a Captain is one of the easiest things in the world as only 4 things need to be accomplished

1- Keep the water out
2- Keep the people in
3- Keep the round side down
4- Make way through the water

But there are MANY steps to accomplish each of these goals

HKKF's response seems reasonable to me. Often what a passenger views as dangerous/close is just viewed as par for the course by the crew.

You know how many people I have gone out with on a sailboat that think the boat is going to capsize because of the heel (leaning over) that is necessary for proper performance of the vessel? They think my answer is BS too.

Regarding the reasonable response and passenger views,.. I'm not so sure.

I have lived on outlying islands for 20 years and have caught ferries for that amount of time, so I'm very familiar with sound abbreviations onboard, weather conditions, etc.

In the past there were the bigger slow ferries, but they seemed more sturdy and the sailors did seem to know what they were doing. The staff slept on their boat and seemed to have a great attachment to their vessel. I always felt comfortable on the ferry - even during a T8.

With the current ferries on Lamma though, there are so many times that I feel uncomfortable during the voyage, and wonder if it's a 'new staff training day'. Routes seem bizarre, as do speeds,....

As for the 'sailboat'.. I'm guilty as charged. I always freak out on a sailboat as I think it's going to capsize!

But the ferry journeys have changed over the past few years IMHO and I think things have become a bit lax.

Not looking forward to the next foggy morning now ..... Time to leave lamma

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