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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:54 pm 
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. wrote:
if this is typical of his level of competence where does the money come from to bankroll his projects?



Quote:
Agile Property Holdings
http://www.corporateinformation.com/Com ... =C156UIA00

Agile Property Holdings Limited (Agile) is an investment holding company. The Company, along with its subsidiaries, is engaged in property development, property management and hotels operation. It operates in three business segments: property development, property management and hotel operations. As of December 31, 2009, the Company owned a portfolio of 66 projects in various stages of development (including five developed and sold projects) in 22 different cities and districts such as Guangzhou, Zhongshan, Foshan, Heyuan, Huizhou, Shanghai, Changzhou, Nanjing, Chengdu, Xi'an, Chongqing, Shenyang and Hainan.
Market Cap: $28,219,087,756


--So this is small change to them. Though eventually they must notice the lack of results.


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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 6:36 pm 
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The Planning Application for The Baroque on Lamma just went online today in the Town Planning website, with lots of detail, maps and artist's drawings for public consultation:
http://www.info.gov.hk/tpb/en/plan_application/Y_I-LI_1.html

Gist of the project (18-page pdf, 11.15MB):
http://www.info.gov.hk/tpb/tc/plan_application/Attachment/20110506/s12a_Y_I-LI_1_0_gist.pdf

The developer has informed some local groups like Living Lamma and the Lamma-zine of this application today, not trying to hide it, providing lots of details of the plans online for discussion, inviting people to comment and arranging consultations with interested groups over the last several months. The submitted plans have changed dramatically before submission, taking many of these early comments and concerns from stakeholders and green groups into account.

More meetings for explanations and discussions with the developers are being scheduled now. Questions and comments in this forum will be read and answered by the developers directly, they've promised.

This is all quite different and refreshing from the secretive YSW Harbour Reclamation and other very low-key local govt. projects where it's usually a frustrating, time-wasting struggle to get the relevant info and plans.

Lamma-zine story in progress...

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 Post subject: Tung O area development
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 9:26 pm 
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I do not expect the voices and comments against the development would be taken in consideration at all. Hong Kong, not like many other poor countries, can afford establishing natural preserves. It is a pity it can not use its wealth this way. Popularity of the Island during the weekends and holidays proves how much needed is this little green spot without cars.


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 8:26 am 
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I've made an objection to the gov today as follows:

"This plan has no support from the yachting community in HK. Facilities are already available and are being used to organize international yacht regattas. This company has no relation ship with any current yacht racing organization, therefore the basis for the development is a false pretext.

The intention of the applicant appears entirely commercial, having acquired various 'agricultural leases' and possibly other rights to land that was previously farm land he now wishes to exploit them for profit. However, there is no value to HK here as the loss of a natural area of countryside far outweighs the benefits that are inferred by the use as 'yachting centre', which is a false pretext.

The applicant should be requested to clarify the support of local yacht racing organization, to my knowledge there is none.

The area is zoned as appropriate and is an area of outstanding natural beauty, I object strongly to the application.

I am a keen yachtsman and a member of the Royal Hong Kong Yacht club for more than 30 years."

THe QUESTION the developer can answer is;

"what do they have to do with Yachting and which authority/club involved in yacht racing in Hong Kong supports the development of the Facility??"


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 10:42 am 
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Related story in the glossy Premier Property magazine supplement of the SCMP the other day, quoting the Baroque developers.

Plus an Artist's Impression of the plans, from the Planning Application link above.


Attachments:
SCMP-Premier-Property-110505.jpg
SCMP-Premier-Property-110505.jpg [ 231.69 KiB | Viewed 2805 times ]
New-Scheme-Presentation-Mar-2011-Rev-1_Page_34-crop.jpg
New-Scheme-Presentation-Mar-2011-Rev-1_Page_34-crop.jpg [ 153.25 KiB | Viewed 2805 times ]

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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 11:51 am 
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Sailing is an exclusive sport; expensive and available for few. I agree that the claim of providing such a great facility like sailing centre for Hongkongers looks cynical and is just a lie.
Hong Kong really needs green areas, just footpaths, protected by law, patrolled by rangers. They need to be large enough to become safe habitat for flora and fauna. On the conceptual plan of the Baroque I noticed the boundary stops just before Turtle Beach, probably as a show of developer environmental concern. This is again a hypocrisy. This distance to construction works and future development will destroy the turtles habitat. Creating some form of nature preserves would be in my opinion much better instead of promoting and spending efforts on such an uttering nonsense like Ocean Park. South of Lamma still have a chance to become a some kind of national park.


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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 7:19 pm 
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Baroque's planning application - expiry date for comments/objections is May 27 ...

http://www.info.gov.hk/tpb/en/plan_appl ... -LI_1.html

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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 1:44 am 
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Discovery Bay plus the Gold Coast - not the Australian Gold Coast, I mean the Tuen Mun Gold Coast.
That will spell the end of Lamma.


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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 2:53 am 
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I looked at the brochure. It all looks wonderful.

But is there really such a huge international yachting community that could support all this, just waiting for someone to build a venue for them to moor their boats and start raining money down on the local businesses?

I have the distinct feeling the whole marina, international regattas, Disneyland by the sea, is a fairytale designed to get the change of land use, and that it will end up as Disco Bay, if he's lucky. Or Sea Ranch if he's not.

The idea that you can just create a whole community like this "build it and they will come" is complete malarkey. You might get a dormitory development; even that is doubtful, no one who could afford the sky high rents would want to live in the boonies.

But they won't care what happens if they can sell the flats off plan to gullible mainland investors who think they're buying into a Chinese Côte d'Azur.

From a selfish point of view, it would be a flag for local landlords to ramp up their rents. Never mind that this place will probably be just as empty as Tannery Row has been for the last 10 years, if it gets built at all.


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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 8:42 am 
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The bilingual, comprehensive website just went online, including a Blog of Baroque:

http://www.bol-hk.com/template?series=34

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 Post subject: Baroque
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 12:11 pm 
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Noticed that today's "Standard" includes details of a Government Notice re the "Application for Environmental Impact Assessment Study Brief under Section 5.(1)(a)" for "the Baroque on Lamma"
Project profile is available for inspection from 12 May 2011 to 25 May 2011.
May be inspected at various offices including Islands District Office, 20/F Harbour Building, Central or EIA Ordinance website (http://www.epd.gov.hk/eia)


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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 12:39 pm 
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Lamma-Gung wrote:
The bilingual, comprehensive website just went online, including a Blog of Baroque:

http://www.bol-hk.com/template?series=34

That's some world class bullshit.

Quote:
Immense Economic Benefits

Organising large-scale events undoubtedly brings immense economic benefits to the host city. Hosting sailing races will attract yachts from around the region, even from other parts of the world. In addition to revenue from spectators, world-renowned sailing races will attract major sponsors and prominent media coverage, thereby generating substantial direct and indirect economic benefits and enhancing Hong Kong's image.

Take the world-renowned America’s Cup as an example. The race has brought 6 million tourists to the host cities where the preliminary and final events are held, each time generating an estimated US$ 8 billion in direct and indirect economic benefits, inferior only to the Olympic Games and FIFA World Cup. Other large-scale international events, such as Volvo Ocean Race, Clipper Round the World Yacht Race and the ISAF World Sailing


They're actually suggesting they could hold the America's Cup there!?

Some interesting features of this "green" development, to indicate what they're really planning :

*900 flats
*135 private car parking spaces
*20 coach parking spaces
*6 lorry parking spaces

WTF? 135 cars, and lorries -- where the hell are they going to drive? Maybe they're Disco-Bay style golf buggies. Or Rolls Royce Silver Shadows. Who knows.


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 Post subject: Re: Baroque
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 4:52 pm 
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dunrovin wrote:
Noticed that today's "Standard" includes details of a Government Notice re the "Application for Environmental Impact Assessment Study Brief under Section 5.(1)(a)" for "the Baroque on Lamma"
Project profile is available for inspection from 12 May 2011 to 25 May 2011.
May be inspected at various offices including Islands District Office, 20/F Harbour Building, Central or EIA Ordinance website (http://www.epd.gov.hk/eia)

Here are the online details, just released today:

BoL Project Profile to the Environmental Protection Department, 64-page pdf, the first step in the standard Environmental Impact Assessment process (EIA scheduled to be completed end of this year):
[url]http://www.epd.gov.hk/eia/register/profile/latest/esb229/esb229.pdf][/url]

Deadline for your comments about this EIA Project Profile is May 25, 2011:
http://www.epd.gov.hk/eia/english/forms/files/comment.pdf

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 11:04 am 
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Lamma-Gung wrote:
Questions and comments in this forum will be read and answered by the developers directly, they've promised.


"Promised".

So, almost three weeks later, the EPD comment period on their application is over tomorrow and they haven't said one word in response.

I expected them to come up with some PR spin, but they couldn't be bothered even to do that.


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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 9:20 pm 
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Alan, the developers actually read your post and replied to me directly before I even saw your post myself just now, coming back from HK Island. Things are really speeding up getting closer to the deadlines....

To clarify, they’ve only promised to answer questions that I'm supposed to collect in this forum. They didn't promise to join this forum and answer questions directly as they're not checking here every day. With all the media and stories appearing in Eng. and Chin. print and online media, I'm surprised they had time to check in here today and respond so quickly to Alan's comment.

Frankly, there have been so few questions raised in this forum - not a single post in the last 12 days - that I haven't collected them yet and put to them to the developers to reply to. There's been so much more interesting and heated discussion been happening every day in other media, especially in local online discussion groups and on Facebook.

So, what are the actual questions to ask the developers??<HR>
I've also just received the first BoL Newsletter. It focuses on green issues and encourages anybody to send in comments to Town Planning and EPD before the deadlines (see Lamma-zine story for details).

The Baroque on Lamma Newsletter: Inaugural Issue 5/2011

Their bilingual "Blog of Baroque" has just published new stories about the former Mo Tat Wan School and the Tin Hau Festival in Sok Kwu Wan last week. You can subscribe to news and updates at their new, comprehensive, bilingual website.

Some of the numerous submissions to Town Planning and EPD might probably be made public soon as well, especially those from Living Lamma and green groups on and off Lamma. Watch this space....

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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 9:49 pm 
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What happened to my question posted on MArch 26 th???

Should I go to the Town Planning Meeting and ask there???

poilkoop wrote:
You can ask him on my behalf:

What does he know about Sailing?

What connections does he have with local yacht and dinghy racing clubs and organisations? What do they have to say about Baroque?

Why does he think he can do a better job at attracting yachting events than the people presently doing it.

The RHKYC is one of the largest in the world with three venues (including a marina) and a huge boatyard what can he add to this?

How can expect the place to function as a marina when the entrance is exposed to huge swells that build up when the wind is south westerly?

As a general comment - Surely this is just a ruse to fool the planning authorities and sell luxury property. THere really isn't enough interest in sailing to justify trashing the end of Lamma, even the America's cup hardly attracts TV coverage. if you want to encourage tourism build something like Eden Project, or another theme park on the Quarry. Forget sailing.


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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 10:00 pm 
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Lamma-Gung wrote:
Frankly, there have been so few questions raised in this forum - not a single post in the last 12 days.



We have four pages of posts here, and they never replied to any of them. No dialogue. They lost by default.

Many criticisms of their plan were made and they didn't bother to respond, either directly or if they're too shy, via you (why are they afraid to just post themselves? Any idiot can join a forum, and many do, as we see every day)..

E.g.:

* Threats to wildlife: Roemer's Frogs; turtles. Absurd to claim that the turtle spawning ground could survive this scheme.

* 100s of car parking spaces -- Why?

* The viability and credibility of their "yachting hub" concept. See Poilkoop's post above. He's a yachtie, says the yachting community has no knowledge of this.

* The vast community of "super yachts" in their brochures, just waiting to find mooring here and throw money at the locals: Who are they and where are they now?

* Legality: how can they claim to "own" land (the "landlord of Lamma" title they award themselves) that is on non-transferable agricultural leases to villagers?

* Credibility: After 15 years of construction the Tannery flats are still empty and unfinished. Who can believe they can carry off a project 100 times bigger?


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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 10:20 pm 
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I've not posted any questions myself, but I have read many that have been posted here, thinking that must cover almost all. Perhaps we could have a re-cap..

- what is the point of a car park on Lamma?
- what are the developer's links to sailing clubs that the whole project seems to rely on?
- given the lack of interest shown in the YSW development (built at the bottom of the market, empty at the top of the market) has so far garnered, what chance is there for this folly to be anything but a butt of jokes?
- what is their hope for this to benefit Lamma Island?
etc..

When are you expecting replies?

Thanks.


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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 11:24 pm 
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I would like to add to the list the preservation of just the last few relatively undisturbed forests and wetlands, habitat of common species of flora and fauna. There was a campaign to protect the unique marsh lands and unique birds and amphibians in the New Territories. In my understanding, in case of South Lamma it is just the beauty, the tranquility, the habitat of COMMON fauna and flora, to be saved. This is very strong cause, this is RATIONAL; this is needed for the health of the society and for quality of life; not just Lammaites – the whole Hong Kong.
The claim the developer’s business is doubtful, however substantiated, may not stand against the developer’s reason. They are ready to argue this. Actually, they may have a hidden profit in this plan. I can not imagine this kind of money spent without some lobby’s profit.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 7:55 am 
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Agreed with poikoop 100% !
We are members of the RHKYC, the HHYC, the ABC and very much involved in the COA council in organizing races and regattas, owner of a sailing boat (and far to belong to the elite I read about somewhere in this discussion), and this guy has obvioulsy no idea what he is talking about.
I haven't seen the lines of superyachts waiting for a berth at the new super-marina in Singapore, and I seriously doubt it is because they are all moored in Dubai awaiting for the Lamma complex to open !


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