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 Post subject: seawall
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:43 am 
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Count me in for a protest march, get some more press attention.
Lets do it, F%%K YEH.


Heh Gweilos
How is the Chinese forums doing on this subject?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:24 am 
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'On the sea side it promises to be a sloping stone construction ending in a sandy bank.'

I fail to see how we can have a sandy bank in what will essentially be several feet of water.

Am I missing something?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:10 am 
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yes


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:11 pm 
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Boss {L_WROTE}:
'On the sea side it promises to be a sloping stone construction ending in a sandy bank.'

I fail to see how we can have a sandy bank in what will essentially be several feet of water.

Am I missing something?


It's called displacement. Some of the sand will be above the waterline and some below.

As with the case for DB and Big Wave Bay they'll have to replacing it. In our case not only because of Typhoons, but because it will become a convenient source for construction material.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:25 am 
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SCMP {L_WROTE}:
Lamma waterfront plan back on the table
Chris Ip Apr 26, 2011

It's a case of deja-vu for those who call laid-back Lamma Island home. The waterfront of Yung Shue Wan, home to seafood restaurants, will be filled in with about four square kilometres of concrete under a government plan.
The HK$55 million project will provide a new pedestrian path and ambulance road stretching about 400 metres right around the bay.

That means reclaiming the entire seafront of the town, described on the Tourism Board's website as having a "European ambience".

If the plan sounds familiar, that's because nearly a decade ago the government tried to launch a similar project until residents, local businesses and environmental groups pressured it to stop. Now those same people say the government is trying to slip the plan back on the table without consulting the community.

Alex Ng Tsz-lum, an owner of the family-run Lamma Seaview Man Fung Restaurant, heard about the plan from another resident.

That was two months after the Civil Engineering and Development Department (CEDD) published details of the project online.

"It's so surprising," he said. "If this was necessary they would have done it a long time ago, right? Why do they have to do it again after 10 years?"

Ng signed a petition organised by a local concern group in 2002 and believed that after residents rejected the plan then, it would not return.

Yet Ng's biggest surprise was that the plan sketches a new path running directly over nearly the entire seating area of his restaurant - a fact he learned only when he was approached by the Post and shown a copy of the official plans. He had not been informed by the government. "I never heard about it. They never came and consulted the local people," he said.

Ron Yiu Kin-yiu, owner of the Green Cottage cafe, whose verandah overlooks the sea, had also heard nothing from officials. He said the natural coastline was part of Lamma's peaceful appeal and without it residents would move away.

For the two years that the work would take to complete, starting from 2014 according to the CEDD, tourists would not visit, and they might not return, he said. He and Ng said about half their customers were visitors, many of them regulars.

Official guidelines require engineering projects to be announced in the press to inform residents. According to residents concern group Living Lamma, this plan was announced in The Standard - which is not distributed on Lamma Island. And the main official community notice board on Yung Shue Wan Main Street carried no announcement.

"These people don't know Lamma and don't talk to people who do know Lamma," Laura Ruggeri, chairwoman of Living Lamma and a 14-year resident of the island, said. "It is shocking that any government department could be so insensitive to the character of the island."

The senior CEDD engineer on the project, Eric Leung, said planning was still at an early stage and would soon undergo an environmental impact assessment. He said the plan had already been cut back from the HK$60 million project covering 10 square kilometres originally proposed in 2002.

"At that time we received quite a lot of objections and the planning department reduced the scale of the reclamation," he said.

Lamma district councillor Yu Lai-fan confirmed that there had been no public consultation on the new plan. The last meetings took place in 2003 and were only to do with the previous plan, which was subsequently rejected. However, Yu did support the proposal, she said.

"Especially in the holidays, the main street is squeezed and vehicles even cannot pass by," she said. "An ambulance could take at least five to 10 minutes to go from the clinic to the pier. With emergency vehicle access, it would take no more than 30 seconds."

Ruggeri said Living Lamma was not opposed to development on the island, but there were alternative ways to build an ambulance path without wrecking the shore.

Ng said his business would suffer if the plan went ahead. His restaurant, where customers sit just a metre or two from the shoreline, would not be the same if it overlooked 30 metres of concrete instead.

"The name of our restaurant is Lamma Seaview. If they do that, we are not Lamma Seaview anymore," he said. "We'd have to change the name of the restaurant, right? It wouldn't make sense any more."


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:10 am 
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Yu Lai Fan {L_WROTE}:
Especially in the holidays, the main street is squeezed and vehicles even cannot pass by," she said. "An ambulance could take at least five to 10 minutes to go from the clinic to the pier. With emergency vehicle access, it would take no more than 30 seconds.


That's the first explicit statement that the EVA is supposed to give access between the clinic and the pier.

Odd, because we've only been told that it was supposed to give access to the the helipad.

Of course, there is no problem getting from the clinic to the helipad, which is where it'd go if there was an emergency.
And there is the new kaido pier right opposite the clinic. And I'm pretty sure there will be another pier for the new police station nearby too, they'll probably have a police boat available there.

If the ambulance is going to meet the HKKF ferry, doesn't matter how fast it is if it has to wait an hour for the ferry.

And I'd like to see an ambulance go from the clinic to the pier in 30 seconds. That would be a ride.

If it actually was urgent, use the siren and blast the tourists out of the way.

Anyway, of course, the ambulance isn't stationed at the clinic or the pier.
So next up the Ring Road "Ambulance Station to Clinic in 30 seconds:"

The only road improvement that I think would make sense would be complete the link from the fire station to the road along YSL valley (now a footpath with some stairs). The ambulance and fire truck could get to the centre of Main Street in no time then. (Well a few minutes, if not 30 seconds.)

I heard the problem with that was gravesites. So rather than deal with that, the government proposed to go the long way round, spend 100 times* as much and dig up the entire village.

*(My guess, feel free to give a more exact figure.)

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What's this EVA going to cost?
Stated $55 million. Seems lowball to me, I think they're not including a lot of works that will be made necessary, compensation, etc. It's 10 times bigger than the proposed bike platform, which is budgeted at $18 million.

Anyway, let's just pretend the aim was to save lives, not find excuses to pour concrete. What could we do with 1/10th of that?

Have a FULL-TIME DOCTOR on call at the clinic.
David Slough might be alive if we'd had a competent doctor here to patch him up instead of the nurses who aren't allowed to do anything even if they could.

They'd probably save the staff cost in fewer $20,000 chopper flights.

For specialist care:
We've got a harbour (for now). Buy a couple of fast boats, have them on call at the kaido pier/garbage pier next to the helipad/police station when built. Cost a few hundred thousand, + crew. Get patients to hospital in Cheung Chau or Pokfulam (for QMH) in a quarter the time it takes them to wait for a chopper, then dawdle through traffic from Central. (Amazingly, there isn't a helipad at QMH.)


One problem is that HK 's health system doesn't recognise that some of us live in "remote" areas. Their policy for ambulances and clinics is to do nothing for serious cases except just to hand them off to the big hospitals. Regardless of the fact that with the time that takes from here (no matter if you have an EVA and a chopper) having local care would save lives.

Will a $55 million EVA save any lives? More likely pedestrians get bowled over by speeding VVs. Speed kills; faster traffic = more serious accidents.


It's so frustrating that they can find money for stupid destructive white elephants instead of examining the actual problems and trying to solve them.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:58 am 
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SCMP letter {L_WROTE}:
Building an ambulance road on Lamma is not going to save lives
Apr 28, 2011

It was with disgust that I learned about the latest government plan for the destruction of our coastline. This time it is Yung Shue Wan that is the victim ("Lamma waterfront plan back on the table", April 26).
This is a beautiful laid-back village, which according to the government is now in need of its own expressway.

The main justification is that, with the new road, ambulances will be able to make faster trips to the ferry on busy days.

There are several problems with this justification. Firstly, the number of ambulance rides, which will not be many considering the size of the population. Also, there is the rush factor. It is not likely that there are boats waiting all the time to pick up patients. And if they are not waiting at the pier, they have to come from Hong Kong and that takes longer than an ambulance driving along Yung Shue Wan Main Street on a busy Sunday afternoon.

If a patient really needs to be rushed to a bigger hospital a helicopter is the way to go, not a ferry. Even with the proposed new road, transport by ferry including transport to and from the ferry piers would easily take an hour.

Shaving five minutes off this trip is not going to save lives. Patients who are not emergency cases can be transferred to another hospital via the regular ferry service.

I have visited Lamma many times, it is still one of my favourite destinations in Hong Kong.

I agree that it is very crowded at weekends, but that is part of its charm, as is the seaside dining.

I really hope that, in years to come, I can continue to enjoy those visits without being disturbed by construction work and later by the new road that will probably be mainly used as a racetrack by village vehicles.

If the government has so many problems getting rid of its money, I am sure it can come up with more constructive ideas, even for Lamma.

Maybe it could consider extending the MTR's South Island Line to have a Lamma Island stop.

Wouter van Marle, Tai Po


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:40 pm 
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I only heard about this last night. I read roughly the first 5 pages of this thread and got bored. But here's my two pence worth anyway.

Currently, the seafront is a disgrace. I welcome this development. Many seaside towns have artificial fronts these days. And many are very nice too.

How anyone can talk heritage, when it's currently a massive concrete wall covered with shitty graffiti is laughable. And as for the sea front restaurants, they must be different to the tarpaulin covered, concrete shit pits I've been to. I'd be happy to see some of them go out of business.

I'm all for this plan. And if they can find space for a Macdonald's, even better. Happy to cross a Hippy picket line for a Big Mac.

Also, not sure if the comment about an MTR stop was a genuine one, or an ironic quip. But I'd be up for that too.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:41 am 
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Tomollin,
i'll give you a short answer.
Yes, the seafront is a disgrace.
No, building an unnecessary EVA road that will soon turn into a racetrack for Village vehicles is not going to improve it.

There is no provision of any artificial beach, no indication that Phase 2 of the reclamation will look any better than Phase 1, which you can "enjoy" if you go for a "stroll" to the helipad.
Phase 1 was designed by CEDD, the same department in charge of Phase 2.
Tasteful design is not what they are famous for.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:18 pm 
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SCMP letters {L_WROTE}:
Reclamation good for island
Fri, 29 Apr 2011

Overzealous environmentalists may not always act to the benefit of Lamma Island.

Among their main concerns are that the proposed reclamation project, with a new beach and an access road, will put an end to the stream of tourists and that waterfront restaurants will be too far away from the water.

At the moment, however, what tourists see when they get off the ferry is a graffiti-covered seawall, a run-off ditch with dirty water and a tiny sand strip full of rubbish.

What conservative Lamma residents miss is that a nice beach and the facelift for the bay might increase the flow of tourists.

Meanwhile, seaview restaurants and inns near Hung Shing Yeh, the island's best public beach, are thriving even though they are separated from the waterfront by an access road and the large beach. This proves that not every development is necessarily an evil for the island.

Anton Ivanov, Lamma


WTF is this guy talking about at HSY? There isn't any waterfront, seawall, or road there. Just the normal, narrow footpath.

And no indication that YSW would have a "nice beach and the facelift for the bay".

And despite all the talk of "dog shit beach" and such, I hopped down on YSW beach to check it out (you do have to hop up and down a wall to get there).
It isn't terrible. No rotting carcasses being picked over by mangy hyenas.

More seashells than plastic. The sand is mostly white even.

You could put up some deckchairs at low tide and sell banana daquiris to drink as you watch the sun set into the smog.


I may post some photos later.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:24 pm 
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Nothing will do better than nature.

We have scarcely anything left here in Hong Kong. The greedies are planning to take this. Lamma is a big piece of fat meat for them.

I think nothing is more disgraceful than a spoilt nature!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:46 pm 
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The plans look OK to me.

And rather a nice big road for the VVs to use as a racetrack than the small lanes they use for one now.

Not sure what the problem with the EVA is to be honest.

I doubt they will put barbed wire around it. I would assume, like elsewhere in the world, it will be used mainly for pedestrians, but it is wide enough to accommodate emergency vehicles when required.

Makes sense to me. And to be honest, I hold the opinion that if they concreted over the entire harbour, it would still look better than it does now. I certainly won't be wasting any time trying to save the place. And it certainly isn't currently natural.

I literally have no clue as to what it is you're all trying to save. If it was lovely beaches and seaside cafes, I'd be first in line with a placard. But it isn't. It's a concrete shit hole.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:52 pm 
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Alan {L_WROTE}:
And despite all the talk of "dog shit beach" and such, I hopped down on YSW beach to check it out...

It isn't terrible. No rotting carcasses being picked over by mangy hyenas.

More seashells than plastic. The sand is mostly white even.

You could put up some deckchairs at low tide and sell banana daquiris to drink as you watch the sun set into the smog.

I may post some photos later.

Here are my own recent photos all taken at low tide from the "white sand beach" in YSW Harbour. Good luck with your "deckchairs at low tide and banana daiquiris".


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:52 pm 
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Lamma-Gung {L_WROTE}:
Here are my own recent photos all taken at low tide from the "white sand beach" in YSW Harbour. Good luck with your "deckchairs at low tide and banana daiquiris".


In fact I was referring to the beach between the YSL nullah and the old pier.
The shoreline between the pier and the reclamation is a different story.

Still, no signs of dogshit.

Bring on the daiquiris.
The first round is on me.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:57 pm 
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Well, fair enough, but that's only half the beach.

Daiquiris on the beach would make a good photo opp.
I might take you up on that offer of a first round....

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:21 pm 
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Reclamation or no reclamation, there is and always will be flotsam.
The other day I saw local women fishing by the nullah.
Let the tourists waste their time on the main street. They like it and deserve it.
I do not like it nor deserve it, so I took the waterfront dirty shitty disgraceful alley to bypass the crowd last Sunday. But when I arrived at the ferry ticket booth by time, it closed at my face because the ferry was full. That was real shit and disgrace.
If the reclamation will attract more tourists, damn it. If it is going to tarnish Lamma's charm and reduce tourists, please go ahead I do pray it go ahead.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:50 pm 
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Yes Mok, but if you take the opinion of the shopkeepers as gospel, they will all be out of business, so nothing for the tourists to do.

Deserted YSW and nice new shorefront to boot.

Perfect!


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:12 pm 
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moksheungming {L_WROTE}:
the ferry was full.

Yes, there were queues of passengers on both ferry piers last weekend.
I asked HKKF about their passenger figures and they confirmed that they had over 10,000 passengers on Easter Sunday for Lamma, similar to the all-time record Easter weekend during SARS when Lamma was promoted in many media as "SARS-free island", causing a flood of visitors on Easter.

The ferry co. sounded pretty happy about this, as most of these people paid weekend/holiday fares....

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:01 am 
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Lamma-Gung {L_WROTE}:
Daiquiris on the beach would make a good photo opp.
I might take you up on that offer of a first round....


If you need me to be the stand-in daquiri drinker on the beach for the photo op, I hereby volunteer. I bet that grandma fisherwoman in Alan's photo might like one, too. She and I can recline on lounge chairs together and sip away while Lamma-Gung takes pics, she with a basket of fish next to her and I with a basket of frogs. That would be a funny scene.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:16 am 
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Great setup, Nancy. Alan might be serving the daiquiris in this photo opp, yes?

But what would the caption be?

"Lamma's latest bar with graffiti wall, following the example of the recently opened Jing Jing bar on Main Street",
"Lammaites preparing for another round in the never-ending fight vs. the Dark Forces of the Govt's cement-mixers",
"Lammaites relaxing on the white sandy beach, before a rubble mound will descend upon them",

or maybe
"Happy Lammaites eagerly looking forward to the long-overdue YSW Harbour Reclamation"?

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